Figuring out how to make friends as an adult can feel surprisingly high stakes. If you’ve ever felt like everyone else already has their people, you’re far from alone. In this episode of Merging Into Life, host Sabrina Pierotti is joined by returning guest Vassia Sarantopoulou, psychologist and founder of AntiLoneliness, to explore why it’s so hard to make friends as an adult, loneliness versus being alone, and what it takes to find meaningful connection when life keeps getting in the way.
Whether you’re navigating a big life change like how to deal with loneliness after a career change, struggling with how to make friends when you have social anxiety or just wondering how to meet new people in your 30s, this episode offers honest, practical insight to one of the most universal struggles of modern adulthood.
[00:00:02] Vassia Sarantopoulou: There is some security at staying at home, and yet there’s something poking you, there’s something bugging you, like, go out, come on, go out! And it’s that innate need we all have as human beings to go out and connect with others. It’s a need we are wired with, we cannot forget that. We love being seen, being understood, having fun with other people.
[00:00:27] Sabrina Pierotti: Listen, lifestyles change. It can become so hard to make new friends. Funny story: so, there is this girl who actually lives in my apartment complex, and for years, I had wanted to introduce myself and exchange numbers, because I always just got great, great energy from her. One day, we were walking in from work at the same time, and I did it. I asked for her number, and it truly sounds like I was asking her out on a date, but this is truly how high stakes it felt. I was worried she was going to think I was weird or like too abrasive, but now her, her husband, and me and Kyle are hanging out and getting to know each other, and it’s awesome. Even though that story has a happy ending, it does make me sad that friendships are just not as easy as they used to be. But you know what? We have an amazing guest returning to the show today that is going to go into the science behind this. It’s important we can provide some ways we can make some more friends. Welcome back to Merging Into Life. I’m your host, Sabrina Pierotti. Today, we’re talking about loneliness, adult friendship, and how to meet new people when it feels like everyone already has their people. We’ll get into why loneliness can be about more than just being alone, how past experiences and life changes shape the way we connect and what it actually looks like to build meaningful relationships as an adult. Joining me today is Vassia Sarantopoulou, who helps people better understand connection, relationships, and the emotional barriers that can make adult friendship and loneliness feel so complicated. Through her work and her own personal experience, she offers insight into what it takes to build relationships that actually feel meaningful. Hi, Vassia, it’s so, so good to see you again. Thank you for joining us on season three.
[00:02:21] Vassia Sarantopoulou: Yes, I’m so happy to see you again.
[00:02:23] Sabrina Pierotti: I’m really, really excited to talk more about what you focus on a lot, which is loneliness and anti-loneliness and building that movement. And today, we’re specifically going to talk about friendships. This is really coming at like such a perfect phase in my life, because I’m in my early 30s and my friendships that I used to have, you know, in my 20s are starting to change and meeting new friends in your 30s, it’s just a very different experience. So, to start, when we talk about loneliness, what does it actually mean to feel lonely versus simply just like being alone and by yourself?
[00:02:56] Vassia Sarantopoulou: Wow, that’s a really important distinction. Loneliness, it’s not the same as being alone. You can be alone and actually feel really peaceful and calm and restored and creative. On the other hand, you can be surrounded by people and feel lonely, deeply lonely, even though physically you are around them. So, loneliness is the feeling that there’s some connection missing in our lives. When we don’t feel understood, emotionally understood by others. When we don’t feel like we belong somewhere. We don’t have our tribe. So that’s one layer of loneliness, the emotional disconnection from others. There’s another even deeper layer of the loneliness, which is the emotion disconnection from ourselves. When we have been ignoring our needs, when we have been performing roles that they don’t really align with who we are, they don’t feel authentic when we have been living to other people’s expectations. So, all these accumulate. And there’s a point that we feel like we don’t even know who we are, why we do what we do.
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[00:04:13] Sabrina Pierotti: What are some of the life changes that can make loneliness show up in adulthood? Like I know for me, I noticed a huge shift when I went from corporate to starting my own voiceover business. It was a huge shift, because I wasn’t interacting and socializing as much anymore. So, in addition to changing jobs, what are other life changes that can cause loneliness as an adult?
[00:04:38] Vassia Sarantopoulou: I think, generally, all changes entail a degree of loneliness, because a part of your identity changes. Like somebody becoming a parent, that’s a positive change for the majority at least, but then your identity changes, your friendships also may shift, and that is why loneliness, in these cases, is more of a manifestation that life changes faster than our sense of belonging can adapt. Another one can be moving country or moving a city. I left Greece 13 years ago to come to the Netherlands. I was really enthusiastic about that. And yet there was a degree of loneliness that I felt because I had to deal with a new country with whatever that entails. Losing familiar places, losing my family, my friend support, my network, having to learn a new language, having to learn a new culture, new rituals, all these things. And then, of course, not forget the more uncomfortable changes, like a breakup or a divorce. Lose a partner that you shared a life with for many years. You’re going to lose the shared friends, future plans, routines, the life that you had built together, the dream that you had built together. Grief as well, like people may be supportive at first, but then they return to their lives while you’re still in pain. So, there is a degree of loneliness there as well.
[00:06:18] Sabrina Pierotti: That’s hard, loneliness has so, so many layers to it. And something I’ve noticed talking about loneliness and relationships, specifically, is in my adulthood, I have met so, so many wonderful people, but more times than not, our connections stay very surface level. It’s fine, and it’s nice to have that easy friend, but most of the connections I make as an adult, like don’t reach the same depth of some friendships that I made when I was younger. Which leads me to feel lonely, and honestly, like a little bit sad. It’s like I meet these great people, but we just aren’t clicking on that deep level in the way that I had with my friends when I was younger. Why is that?
[00:06:59] Vassia Sarantopoulou: One factor that plays an important role there is the time that we spend with people. Like when we were in our school years, university years, we had to hang out with the same people every single day. You had to sit together with them at the same desk next to them. You had to do homework assignments, presentations together. Like the time that was spent with each other created the possibility for connection, for commitment and for trust that we had. But now, we’re working. Now, we have a completely different life. We see our friends, our colleagues, or the people that we meet maybe once a month, if we’re lucky, or maybe even less. So, now the time that we spend together with them is significantly less than what we had when we were back at school or university, which means that it takes more time to trust each other. But also, besides that practical detail, I think that when we grow older, we carry different emotional baggage from relationships. How many times were you hurt when you were 15 years old? And how many times have you been hurt when you are in your 30s? The number multiplies. We’re carrying pain. And when we’re carrying pain, our brain says, watch out, be careful, don’t trust too easily, they keep them at arm’s length, go slowly. The older we get, the more we have that, that we have to be careful. We need more proof. It might seem that it’s superficial. In some cases, yes, it is superficial, because there’s not a good match. But I think in most cases is that people are treading lightly in relationships. We all have been hurt and rejected, but we don’t want more.
[00:08:59] Sabrina Pierotti: And I want to dive a little bit more into why meeting new people can feel so high stakes. Something that I’ve noticed, and this is going to sound probably bad about myself, is just my level of energy when going to meet new people. As I have gotten older, my tolerance for small talk is almost zero. And I just like love being home, and I love being with my husband and my pug, watching movies and drinking coffee. That is just like what makes me happy. And I know I’m not the only person that feels this way. So, what do you tell the person who might find it so, so hard to like muster up the energy to just go out and socialize?
[00:09:39] Vassia Sarantopoulou: I would start a little bit with the mindset. You said you’re having a great time staying at home with your husband, with your dog. It’s fantastic. It touches what we said before about emotional safety. It feels safe here. Why would you go out there where things aren’t safe or unknown even? There is some security at staying at a home, and yet, there’s something poking you, there’s something bugging you like go out, come on, go out meet some friends, and it’s that innate need we all have as human beings to go out and connect with others. It’s a need we are wired with. We cannot forget that. We love being seen, being understood, having fun with other people. Staying at home might be safe, but also, sometimes, if I feel lonely, like I have only my husband or I have one friend, I wish I had somebody else that I can speak about something else. So, that is painful. I don’t have friends is painful, going out and finding friends also is difficult and painful, because both of them are uncomfortable, which is the discomfort that I’m able to tolerate, because the result is better.
[00:10:52] Sabrina Pierotti: That is so powerful. And it’s more of like reminding yourself that this pain is temporary. You just have to push through it.
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[00:11:38] Sabrina Pierotti: Now, how much of adult loneliness is also tied to mental health? Like feeling anxious, low or disconnected can really, really make it hard to reach out. Even when we know, like you said, do you feel that? Pushing to go out and meet somebody and socialize. And this pattern definitely feels like a very toxic cycle. How much does mental health impact loneliness today?
[00:12:05] Vassia Sarantopoulou: A lot. And I see that as part of a loop. Like when you isolate, you feel lonely, you isolate. That’s fertile ground for negative thinking. You stay there, and then you start ruminating. Maybe there’s something wrong with me or how difficult it is to make relationships. I’m never going to find a relationship. I’m not going to find the friend. Or people are demanding, or people want more of me, or people will suck my energy. And all these negative thoughts will start amplifying, growing, because there’s fertile ground. I’m by myself, I don’t have any positive evidence that things are going well. So, then, we just stay there in the rumination, in the shame, in low motivation, and we’re just stuck.
[00:12:56] Sabrina Pierotti: So how do we interrupt that cycle?
[00:12:59] Vassia Sarantopoulou: Very small steps. Even when you say I need to go out and find a good friend, it’s already a negative thought because it puts a lot of pressure and high expectation on you. We don’t start, I need a best friend. I need to find my soulmate. That’s already too much pressure. We start really small, like I need one moment of connection. I need one moment of allowing myself to go out there and have fun. Just that. I remember a client of mine many years ago, he was telling me that, when I’m thinking of going and hanging out with my colleagues, I feel so much pressure, because they’re all so smart. I need to be smart as well. I need to impress them. I have to show them that I’m interesting. So, then, all this pressure really paralyzes me, and then eventually, I don’t say anything. Yeah, of course, because already you went with that pressure and that high expectation. So, we don’t need to impress, we just need simple human connection. Just stay next to somebody, smile, ask a question, a really small and honest question. Somebody saying about the travels, for example, you don’t need to talk about your travels. You just need to ask them, Oh, really? Have you been there before? How was it? You are not scared at all when you travel by yourself? Oh, my God, that’s amazing. Just be there and be interested about the person you have in front of you. That’s a fantastic connection.
[00:14:35] Sabrina Pierotti: Why is it so important to not fall into these blanket beliefs about people that could be part of the reason why we don’t go out and socialize in the first place, like for example, people are flaky, or it’s too late to make friends, or everybody already has their circle. I know that’s a really common one. These are very very blanket, limiting beliefs, and what do these stories really end up doing to us at the end of the day if we believe them.
[00:15:03] Vassia Sarantopoulou: They’re closing doors. I mean, what’s the point? If I believe all the things you just said, what’s that point? I’m going to stay here with my cats, and I don’t find any reason to go out there. So, all these thoughts, that’s why in therapy, we work a lot with our beliefs and our thoughts. And we want to be aware of them, because they’re not always true. They’re generalized ideas about the world. Our brain takes one painful experience, and it creates a guideline, a rule, an over-generalized belief. So, if you have been hurt, really hurt by one partner in the past, your brain would say, well, all men are mean. And that’s a thought, that’s a belief, but that’s not necessarily true. But that’s how your brain thinks that it’s protecting you. We stop trying, eventually, and we stop also noticing the people who don’t meet that rule. Because there are also people around you who are loving and caring and respectful. The brain doesn’t notice that because that’s, you know, that’s an outlier. That doesn’t count.
[00:16:11] Sabrina Pierotti: That is hard, because our brain can tell us things that we completely believe. That thought is just part of my body protecting me. No different than how my heart is keeping me alive, my lungs are allowing me to breathe. So, like you can’t make it go away completely. So, just place that protective thought, which is everything we’ve been talking about that’s been holding us back from making new friends that eventually hurts us when it is telling us it’s helping us.
[00:16:40] Vassia Sarantopoulou: I like the word reality, because in therapy, we don’t want to replace a negative belief with a positive one. You want to replace a negative with a realistic one, with a helpful one. You don’t want to go from people are flaky to people are always consistent and caring and loving and amazing. You don’t want to go there, because that’s not realistic even. That’s not the only reality. But you want to go to, yes, some people are going to be flaky. And also, there are going to be some people that are going to be there for you no matter what. They’re going to love you and accept you as you are. And my job is to find the second ones. I remember a quote that I saw from Brene Brown. She said, “if you’re looking for proof that you’re not enough, you’re going find it.”
[00:17:36] Sabrina Pierotti: I want to start to get practical and start to provide some tools and advice for people that are like, all right, I am ready to go out and meet somebody new. We love to hear that. So, if someone wants more connection in their life, they have that energy to do it and that motivation, where do they even start? What are the tools? What are the resources, the easy wins that somebody could go after?
[00:18:00] Vassia Sarantopoulou: I would work again with values, like what are the activities you do that align with your values? Somebody who believes in the power of community, they usually go in a nonprofit organization and they volunteer. That’s what they like, and they go there. The great thing about that is that you’re going to meet somebody who has the same value with you, because they believe in the power of community. If you love animals, for example, nature. You’re going to do something related with animals, with nature, and, a miracle, you’re going to find somebody who already loves the same thing you love. You already have something in common.
[00:18:42] Sabrina Pierotti: That reminds me, that is like so spot on to how my husband and I met one of our like best adult couple friends. Their names are Amy and Jeff. I was literally walking my pug, he like rides in a stroller. So, I was strolling him down the sidewalk, and Amy runs over, and I haven’t met her yet at this point, and she’s like oohing and aahing over him, and we start talking, and she goes, I also have a pug. His name is Hudson. Once we started talking, we realized that we both had the same dog sitter as well. So, that was like years ago. And now we go to trivia with them at our local pub. We go to the dog park together. Like they truly have become such good friends of ours. And sometimes, stuff organically just like falls into your life like that. I actually read that it takes about 50 hours for someone to move from an acquaintance to like a real close friend. So, that goes along with everything you’ve been saying, but that is something to keep in mind, to keep you motivated and dedicated to keep going to that workout class or to keep putting yourself in that awkward position as you’re starting to learn somebody for the first time.
[00:19:58] Vassia Sarantopoulou: And one thing that we do when we go out there to find human connection, we leave the checklist and the expectations back home. If you go to an event with your checklist, I need somebody who is this and that, and this and this, and that. You’re not connecting, you’re just monitoring people. You’re just looking around to see who meets your criteria. That’s not connection, that’s not going to happen. Judgments with connection, they don’t go along.
[00:20:25] Sabrina Pierotti: As we wrap up, Vassia, I just have a couple closing questions. For someone who’s also maybe feeling a little bit ashamed of feeling lonely, what would you want them to remember about building connections as an adult?
[00:20:38] Vassia Sarantopoulou: One thing is that feeling lonely is really normal. It’s a signal that our body is sending us to say, hey, we need connection here. It’s the same protective mechanism when, for example, you touch a hot surface and you feel the burning. The reason you feel burning is because your brain wants to tell you, hey, remove your hand from the hot surface. If you didn’t feel the burning, you would have your hands burnt. So, it’s the same with loneliness. It’s a signal that says something doesn’t work in our life at the moment. So, when you see from that perspective, there’s nothing to feel ashamed.
[00:21:21] Sabrina Pierotti: All right, now we are headed into our mailbag segment. And this is an exciting segment where listeners of the podcast and AAA members have a chance to ask their questions. I’m over 30 and worried I may have missed my chance to make close friends. I have severe social anxiety, my closest friends live in other cities, and I feel so anxious around new people that it’s hard to connect at all. I’ve started therapy, but I’m afraid I’ll never be able to relax enough to form real friendships. Can you still build a meaningful social life after 30 when anxiety keeps getting in the way.
[00:22:00] Vassia Sarantopoulou: Hmmmmmmmmmmm
[00:22:02] Sabrina Pierotti: My heart goes out to that person.
[00:22:04] Vassia Sarantopoulou: Absolutely. I’m focused on the sentence, the first sentence he said, I’m over 30 and worried that I might have missed my chance to make close friends. I ask again this question, I’m not going to ask whether this is true or not, but I’m going to ask, is that statement helpful or not? Does that motivate you to go out and look for friends, or does it make you feel hopeless, like, oh, OK, what’s the point? So, first and foremost, we question that thing, that thought that I might have missed. No, of course you haven’t. Absolutely, you can build relationships. Even when you are at your 30s or 40s or 50s or 60s or 70s, it doesn’t matter, it has no age. Absolutely you can build meaningful social life even with anxiety. We have to look at social anxiety at what it says to you. The brain says to, you, oh, I’m being judged, or I will embarrass myself, or people will reject me. What does social anxiety say to you? And you work with that. When you work with that, the rest will start happening when you regulate your nervous system. When you are able to feel calm, when you work with the feeling of peace that you have inside you and you don’t need to show up perfectly. Most of the people you’re going to meet out there, they’re struggling with anxiety, they struggling with depression, they are struggling with burnout, doesn’t mean that I need to isolate until I’m perfect. And then when I’m perfect, I need to show-up. No. Accept that you’re lovable, you are likable, exactly as you are. So, I would invite them instead of again, gathering, collecting proof of why I’m not enough for a friendship to do the opposite. Journal every day. What are the things you already have that make you a good friend? You’re funny, you’re interesting, you are caring, you are loyal. Write the things that already make you a good friend. I remember how somebody else is already looking for you out there.
[00:24:12] Sabrina Pierotti: Vassia, thank you so much for spending time with me today. Thank you for everything you shared. You are so wonderful. Where can people find you if they want to get in touch with you or learn more about the work you do?
[00:24:24] Vassia Sarantopoulou: I think the safest way is to go to my website antiloneliness.com. That’s me there but also my team of therapists who are supporting others with their mental health. But you’re going to find me there, you can contact me, and we can take it from there.
[00:24:40] Sabrina Pierotti: Thank you so much, Vassia. It’s been a true pleasure chatting with you today.
[00:24:44] Vassia Sarantopoulou: Thank you as well.
[00:24:48] Sabrina Pierotti: Loneliness is not always about being alone. Sometimes it is about feeling disconnected from yourself, being in the wrong environment, or realizing that the people around you are not the right fit for this season of life. Building connection as an adult does take more intention, but that does not mean it is too late. It may take more time, more consistency and a little more tolerance for rejection. But meaningful relationships are still possible. And if you are feeling lonely, that is not something to be ashamed of. It may just be a sign that something in your life needs more care, attention, or change. Thanks for being here with us. If you’re enjoying the show, do us a quick favor, leave a review and share this episode with a friend who might need it.
[00:25:40] Sabrina Pierotti: The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are not necessarily the views of AAA Northeast, AAA and or its affiliates.
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