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IN THIS EPISODE

Opening a credit card account can show potential lenders that you are financially responsible. Learning how to build credit and maintaining a good credit score can open doors to bigger purchases. But credit card debt could easily work against you.

Credit cards promise points programs and other perks, but there are also high interest rates, minimum payments and annual fees. So, what is the best credit card to get and when is the best time to use it?

Listen in as personal finance journalist Katherine Fan breaks down the basics like how to avoid credit card debt and other common credit card mistakes, along with making the most of your card’s perks and managing credit to your benefit.

Learn about AAA Visa Signature Credit Cards.

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KEY TAKEAWAYS

[10:50] – What do people need to keep in mind about credit cards?
[12:08] – What to be aware of when looking at store credit cards.
[13:09] – How do you choose which card to use, and when?
[16:07] – Basic tips to maintain healthy credit card habits.

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TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:00]
Amanda Greene: The views and opinions expressed in this podcast do not constitute financial advice.

[00:00:06]
Amanda’s Daughter: Mama, can you buy me this candy please?

[00:00:10]
Amanda Greene: Oh, I didn’t bring any cash with me. Maybe next time.

[00:00:13]
Amanda’s Daughter: Oh, why can’t you do your credit card?

[00:00:16]
Amanda Greene: We’re not going to put candy on a credit card.

[00:00:18]
Amanda’s Daughter: Well, why not?

[00:00:20]
Amanda Greene: This might be a good time to teach you why not? Welcome to Merging Into Life where we navigate life’s milestones, one episode at a time. Brought to you by AAA Northeast. I’m your host, Amanda Greene. Today we’re going to talk about building credit and getting your first credit card. I can remember when I got my first credit card, I felt like a real adult. Finally, I could be trusted to make bigger purchases, manage my money more easily, and maybe, and most importantly, build credit. I learned fast though that this piece of plastic came with responsibility, more than I knew at the time. And to be honest with you, there’s still more to learn, because let’s face it, there are so many credit cards to choose from and all kinds of terms that are really difficult to understand at times. But don’t fret, today we’re breaking down the mystery behind credit cards and going back to the basics.

READ MORE

[00:01:15]
Katherine Fan: I’m Katherine Fan, correspondent for credit cards at Business Insider, and that just means I cover all things credit cards. So, when you should get a credit card, if you can get a credit card, what you should do if you shouldn’t use a credit card, anything in that vein, I love talking about it all day, every day.

[00:01:33]
Amanda Greene: So, I’m really excited to dive into this with you. If we could just start at the basics. Can you explain what a credit score is and how that works?

[00:01:44]
Katherine Fan: So very simply put, a credit score is basically a number that the U.S. issuers use to aggregate everything that you are doing with money and assign you a somewhat arbitrary score.

[00:01:59]
Amanda Greene: And why do you need it? How does it affect us?

[00:02:02]
Katherine Fan: So, there’s a lot to be said about credit scores and some people say they’re not the best example of your financial picture, because let’s say you’re an 18-year-old and you earn $10 an hour and you only work 10 hours a week, but if you don’t have any debt you may end up having a higher credit score than someone who gets paid way more, but overdrafts their bank account every single paycheck. So, a credit score essentially allows an issuer, a bank, to quickly assess whether or not you are going to be a financial risk. And this is useful if you want to get a car loan, you want to get a mortgage, even if you want to get a credit card, your credit score is very crucial to determining the types of products you’ll qualify for, the interest rate you’ll receive and several other financially related metrics.

[00:02:52]
Amanda Greene: Do those things you just mentioned, a mortgage, a car payment, a credit card bill, do all of those payments, and I guess extensions of credit in a way, those all determine your credit score and affect your credit score making those payments?

[00:03:06]
Katherine Fan: Yes, absolutely. So, the No. 1 thing you should always know is pay back your debts as quickly as you can consistently, because those payments are tracked, and they typically get reported to one of the three major financial bureaus for consumers. So, if you’ve ever heard of Equifax, TransUnion, or anything like that, Experian, those are the agencies responsible for tracking, “OK, did Amanda pay her bill on time? Did Katherine pay off her credit card statement? If she did, was she late or did she leave an outstanding balance?” Those are all tracked, and they all contribute towards your credit score.

[00:03:44]
Amanda Greene: So you said we need to pay our bills on time to make sure that our credit score is not going down, I guess. What are some other basic principles when it comes to credit scores?

[00:03:53]
Katherine Fan: There are five main buckets of focus that go into your score. So, 35% is your payment history. Again, like we mentioned just now, pay off what you owe, pay it off when it’s due. That is a solid third of what comprises your credit score. Even if you have a massive debt, as long as you’re consistently paying it off, or paying down what you can toward it, that counts for something. As long as you make sure you’re always doing it when it’s due, not 30 days later, not 90 days later, not even a couple days later, that goes a long way toward boosting and maintaining a high credit score. The second one is how much you owe. So, this is 30%, so also a sizable chunk of what comprises your credit score. Obviously if I owe a $ 100, that’s very different from if I owe a $ 100,000, but there are different types of debt as well. Obviously if I have a mortgage, it’s probably going to be somewhere in the six figures, but if I have very high interest credit card debt, even if I only owe a $1,000 or $10,000, if I don’t pay that off consistently, I will end up owing a lot more very quickly. Then the third out of five is the length of your credit history. So, that counts for something that’s 15% of it. And then the last two are 10% apiece. They’re not the biggest deal, but it does factor in a little bit to your credit score.

So, the next one is new credit. If I just got a brand-new credit card, if I just got 10 brand new credit cards, that counts for something as well, because a bank is still going to be like, “Well, is she trustworthy though? Because she only had a $ 10,000 credit limit a few months ago, and now, all of a sudden, she’s got a $50, 000 credit limit.” So, they’ll be a little bit wary if your credit is brand new. And then, finally, your credit mix is the final 10% of that. So, that just means: Do I have a diverse range of debts or financial responsibilities that I’m consistent about? So that might mean a car loan, a home loan and my credit card and maybe student loans. So, it just looks at is all of my debt credit card debt? Because if it’s a 100% credit card debt, that does make me sound a little bit more risky. But if it’s I’m paying down my car responsibly, and I’m paying off student loans, I honestly look like a really good financial candidate.

[00:06:07]
Amanda Greene: So, let’s say you pay off your car. Should we be adding another loan or credit card into your credit mix, or just leaving things as they are?

[00:06:17]
Katherine Fan: I think your money should work for you, so only open that line of credit if you need it. Because typically there are financial ramifications of anything you do, even if it’s a credit card and you pay it off all the time, it’s one more space you have to keep track of. So again, only do it if you makes sense for you, and especially if you’re planning on getting a big loan soon, like you want to buy a house in the next year, most experts will tell you try to avoid anything that impacts your credit score at all. So, even if, let’s say, you did pay off that car loan and your score looks like it a dipped a little bit, don’t touch it for a few months, don’t open a new card, don’t do anything, because what you want is for the bank to see your consistent usage. That’s going to get you the best interest rate when you’re applying for a mortgage. So, if you’re ever looking for something where you do want to boost your credit score, the best thing you can do for yourself, pay off as much as you can, pay it consistently and don’t open too many other things at the same time.

[00:07:13]
Amanda Greene: When a person is just starting out, how do you get your first credit card?

[00:07:18]
Katherine Fan: So, I think I got my first credit card, I actually was an authorized user on someone else’s card, so that is still my oldest card, and it’s not even in my personal name, but that’s how a lot of us get started.

[00:07:31]
Amanda Greene: How did that help you build credit? Are you piggybacking off of someone else’s responsible use of a credit card by being an authorized user? Does that help you build credit?

[00:07:43]
Katherine Fan: That’s exactly what that means, Amanda. So, typically someone who’s an authorized user, maybe a child, maybe a partner of the main credit card holder. So, one way people are helping their children build credit now is by adding them as authorized users. So, an authorized user typically has several different forms of access, you can either give an authorized user complete access, let’s say it’s your spouse, and you want to use one credit card for household expenses, but you’re clearly going to be in different places at different times. That’s where you can give an authorized user complete access. They also have an online login. They can see how much money they’ve spent and maybe even see how much you’ve spent on the card. You can also offer limited access, which is probably what you want to give your kid, your teenager if you want to give them a certain allowance to spend every month for school meals or school clothes or whatever, but you don’t want them to just run away and have too much fun with it. And the credit score that you’re essentially going to share is going to be based off of that main credit card holder’s credit score. So, only do this, of course, if you have really good or excellent credit to share. But because I was able to build great credit early on when I added my younger brothers onto my own credit cards as my authorized users, they very quickly were able to get an excellent credit score.

[00:09:03]
Amanda Greene: And that’s not something that can negatively affect your credit, right? Having someone as the authorized user?

[00:09:10]
Katherine Fan: So, it depends. It’s very risky, because you are tying your financial well-being to someone else’s. That being said, let’s say again in the instance where a parent is putting a minor child on their credit card account to help them build credit, you don’t even have to give them the credit card. You can just open it and keep it somewhere safe, locked up in the safe for them. But this one can be risky, because again, if you have poor credit, someone else’s credit can be tanked from the get-go just by being paired with yours. So, be very careful with this option.

[00:09:40]
Amanda Greene: So let’s say this is not an option for you, you don’t have the opportunity to jump onto someone else’s account as an authorized user to build credit. How else could you get good credit if you’re starting with absolutely no credit?

[00:09:53]
Katherine Fan: So, one of the best ways to get started is just start building a relationship with a bank, and credit cards are the easiest way to begin building credit. Sometimes you can’t do that though, you won’t be approved for a credit card if you don’t already have a banking relationship. So making sure you open a bank account, making sure they recognize who you are, what you do with your money, showing a consistent history of responsible usage. Another way that your credit can be impacted by just daily life in general is a lot of times when you pay rent, if you miss payments, those will get reported, you will be marked as someone who is delinquent on their rent payment or skips out on rent, or anything like that. So, you can also check to see if your consistent payments are being reported to the credit bureaus.

[00:10:46]
Amanda Greene: What are some of the things that you think people don’t really know about credit?

[00:10:50]
Katherine Fan: The questions you asked just now are actually really helpful to keep in mind, because people are really different. Some people are super responsible, they can barely get themselves to splurge a little bit on a meal out. Those kinds of people can relax a little bit. On the other hand, I think many of us are prone to the temptation of, “Oh my goodness, I have a credit card. What can I do with it? The possibilities are endless.” Especially if they give you a really nice credit limit. If they give you tens of thousands of dollars at once, it can feel like the heavens just opened up and dumped money on you, but that’s not the case. So, I think it’s super responsible for people to remember that rules are just rules for a reason. You have to understand what you are most likely to do. You need to know your own worst habits and also best traits. So, just because you have a lower credit score than someone else doesn’t mean that you’re any less worthy or successful in your career or good at managing money. It just shows you, “Hey, this is something that you could work on improving, and there are many different ways to getting there.”

[00:11:50]
Amanda Greene: I find it a little confusing and overwhelming that I feel like every time I check out at a store, they’re like, “You’re pre-qualified for a credit card. Would you like to take one out and save x percent?” And I feel like there is just constant offers for credit cards. How do you choose the right one?

[00:12:07]
Katherine Fan: Specifically to credit cards from stores, I will say be really careful of them, because they have some of the highest interest rates across all credit cards in the entire country. Typically, a regular bank credit card may cap out at about 30% APR. Store credit cards consistently go 30, 32, 35, 40%, so always be really careful with those.

[00:12:30]
Amanda Greene: That’s terrifying.

[00:12:31]
Katherine Fan: It is terrifying. And it’s also really hard to remember that you applied for one when you are super excited you just got such a gorgeous outfit, or such a fun deal, it’s really hard to remember. And a lot of times they’re not linked to your typical bank, so if you don’t have auto payments set up, you can get in so much debt so quickly.

[00:12:50]
Amanda Greene: But how do you make the choice of which one or ones to take out? I have a friend who has one that she gets the gift card rewards, and another who specifically does an airline to earn airline miles. Do you have any advice about if you do want to take out one or two cards, how to choose one?

[00:13:08]
Katherine Fan: Absolutely. So, quick plug, I cover all of our credit card guides at Business Insider, but the whole thing that I reiterate over and over in these guides is understand your own financial preferences, lifestyle behaviors, and your foibles as well. So, know if you are pretty prone to just spending recklessly, you probably want a card that will cut you off at a certain point. Maybe you don’t want a very high credit limit, maybe don’t even apply for a credit card. But if you are a pretty responsible person and you would like to get a little bit back in exchange for the money you would spend anyway, I typically suggest, if you want to keep it simple, just get one credit card that you can use for everything. It won’t always get you the very best discount of everything, but it will consistently reward you for every dollar you spend. There are some flat-rate cash-back cards that get you a consistent 2% back on every dollar you spend. If you’re willing to put in a little bit more work, some credit cards give you 5% back on categories that change every quarter, so every three months. So, it’s a little bit of a game. If that’s something you enjoy doing some of those cards may be a good fit. Or, if you really like traveling, I highly recommend travel rewards credit cards, because not only do you get points back for traveling, but the benefits can make or break your trip.

[00:14:35]
Amanda Greene: What is the rule of thumb between usage and credit available? Should you only be using 25% of what’s available to you to keep your credit right?

[00:14:46]
Katherine Fan: Yes, there is a rule of thumb, but the honest answer is as little as possible. I would say you’re probably in a very good range if you can use 10% of your available credit. So again, that’s called your utilization ratio. So, if you keep that one to 10, that’s very, very good. But I would say, for most people, let’s say you only have a few thousand dollars credit limit, it’s totally fine to be anywhere in the 10 to 30% at any given time. Again, remember, the most important part is that only spend what you can pay off in full every single month. So, if that’s what you’re doing, it doesn’t really matter that much if you’re overreaching that utilization ratio in between. It’s ideal to maintain that 30% or less benchmark, but it’s totally okay if especially you’re buying new furniture or you have a new tuition expense or something, if it goes up for a while. Again, that consistency makes all the difference. So, if it’s only this one time this month that you went to 60 or 80 or 90%, you’re OK. If you find yourself consistently going over, even when you pay off everything in full every single month, it might be a good time to ask your bank if you can get a credit limit increase.

[00:15:59]
Amanda Greene: So, let’s say you get that credit card, what are the basic rules of engagement to take with you and apply?

[00:16:05]
Katherine Fan: Ooh, I like to automatically set up auto pay on my credit card so that at the bare minimum, the minimum amount required, gets auto drafted out of my bank account the day my statement closes. So, typically you have a few weeks between when your statement closes and when you actually need to pay that dollar amount. I pay it the moment it closes, and that just helps me remember at a bare minimum, even if for some weird reason I totally forget to pay off the rest of my card, I won’t show a missed payment. It will at least show that I paid the $25, $100 dollars that was required for the minimum payment to show that I tried. The second one is I set up a bunch of calendar alerts for myself. I remind myself when my credit card renews every year. Not a big deal if you have a lot of no annual fee credit cards, it is a big deal if you have a card that charges $95 a year, all the way up to $550, $695 a year, it’s super important to make sure you know when that next annual fee is coming up so it doesn’t catch you completely off guard.

[00:17:13]
Amanda Greene: Let’s wrap things up with a round of rapid fire questions. How many credit cards should a person have?

[00:17:18]
Katherine Fan: Ooh, as many as you can responsibly manage.

[00:17:21]
Amanda Greene: If you have to miss a bill payment, which one should you choose to miss for the month?

[00:17:27]
Katherine Fan: You should always pay at least the minimum if possible on all of them. So, even if you cannot pay all of them off, put a little bit on each one of them. And if you absolutely, absolutely have to miss one, call your bank and explain what happened. At least have a record that you tried.

[00:17:41]
Amanda Greene: OK. That’s such an adulting thing to have to call places and talk about things. It’s true. What is the most important credit card perk to you?

[00:17:51]
Katherine Fan: I really value travel benefits. We fly to Asia pretty often, so that saves us thousands of dollars every trip.

[00:17:58]
Amanda Greene: Wow. What is the most a person should pay for a credit card?

[00:18:02]
Katherine Fan: You should pay what you personally are comfortable with. Make sure that the card that you’re getting offers enough benefits to offset what you’re paying and quite a bit more.

[00:18:11]
Amanda Greene: What’s the most expensive credit card you’ve ever heard of?

[00:18:14]
Katherine Fan: There’s a very well-known card that is invite only, it has a $ 5,000 initiation fee, and you have to pay thousands of dollars every year just to keep it, and it only earns 1 point per dollar, so it’s totally one of those bragging rights cards.

[00:18:28]
Amanda Greene: Is that the metal one? Is it pretty heavy?

[00:18:31]
Katherine Fan: It is pretty heavy.

[00:18:31]
Amanda Greene: But there are a bunch of metal cards. So, I waitressed in college, and I remember this one family would come in with a very heavy metal card, and I thought, “This feels very fancy.” But again, I’m 19, I have no idea what I’m holding in my hand, but I’m like, “I think you guys might be really-“

[00:18:48]
Katherine Fan: You might be fancy. No, there are a lot of metal cards now, because people love that vibe.

[00:18:55]
Amanda Greene: Thank you so much for coming on with us and sharing everything that you know and shedding some light on a topic that can be a little overwhelming. And the more we talk about things, the better we can do with managing it all. So, thank you for coming on and sharing.

[00:19:08]
Katherine Fan: Thank you so much for having me.

[00:19:11]
Amanda Greene: So friends, a credit card can be a powerful tool to show that you’re financially responsible. It tells a story about you. Whether you’re using a credit card to build credit, earn rewards, or manage expenses, the key is knowing your terms, making payments on time and using your card wisely.

[00:19:29]
Amanda’s Daughter: Mommy, can I buy this candy, I have a dollar?

[00:19:33]
Amanda Greene: You have a dollar with you?

[00:19:34]
Amanda’s Daughter: Yeah.

[00:19:35]
Amanda Greene: Sure. You can buy it with your cash.

[00:19:37]
Amanda’s Daughter: Oh, yay.

[00:19:38]
Amanda Greene: Happy responsible spending. You’ve been listening to Merging Into Life where we navigate life’s milestones, one episode at a time, brought to you by AAA Northeast with assistance from Jar Audio. I’m your host, Amanda Green. We would love to hear what you think. Your feedback really matters to us. So, if you have any ideas for an episode or you just want to say “hi,” please leave a review wherever you listen, or email us at podcast@aaanortheast.com. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast do not constitute financial advice and are not necessarily the views of AAA Northeast, AAA and or its affiliates.

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RESOURCES

AAA.com/Podcast

AAA Visa Signature Credit Cards

How to Build Your Credit Score

Good Debt vs. Bad Debt

Katherine Fan

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Want to Learn More? Drop Us a Note

*The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are not necessarily the views of AAA Northeast, AAA and/or its affiliates.

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IN THIS EPISODE

Heading down the aisle soon? Congrats! Now for the fun part: wedding planning. It’s a milestone event you’ve always thought of and will always remember, but no pressure!

From the venue and vows to the flowers, food and photographers, there’s a long wedding planning checklist for into turning your dream wedding into a reality.

In this episode, you’ll meet Jessica Bishop. As founder of Budget Savvy Bride, host of “The Bouquet Toss” podcast and author of the bestseller, “Budget Savvy Wedding Planner and Organizer,” she knows a thing or two about how to plan for a wedding. She shares practical wedding advice and tips for the bride and groom, like how to plan without breaking the bank and with minimal stress, so you can get hitched without a hitch.

This is your essential wedding planning timeline and guide.

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KEY TAKEAWAYS

[3:31] – How to make sure your wedding day is enjoyable, and not stressful
[7:09] – Keys to keeping your guest list under control
[8:16] – The pros and cons of a destination wedding
[9:27] – How to make a reasonable budget
[15:52] – What are the hot wedding trends?

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TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:01]
Amanda Greene: My wedding anniversary is actually coming up soon. What a day that was. It was so romantic, surrounded by family and friends, and we danced all night. And I collect skeleton keys, so that was our theme. We had them hanging from all of the centerpieces. It was so beautiful and special, which I know skeleton keys aren’t for everybody, but that’s the thing. It was about us and I loved all of those personal touches that we were able to add, but oh my goodness, it was so much work.

And by the time the wedding was over, I felt like I was just figuring out what I was doing. So instead of waiting until yours or your friends or your brother’s or your cousin’s wedding is over, why don’t we figure out how to make that special day amazing now. Welcome to Merging into Life where we navigate life’s milestones one episode at a time, brought to you by AAA Northeast. I’m your host, Amanda Greene. Now that we’re well into season one, we would love to hear what you think. If you have feedback, ideas for an episode or you just want to say hi, please leave a review wherever you listen or email us at podcast@aaanortheast.com.

Today we’re going to talk about planning a wedding. Venue, food, beverages, decorations, flowers, vows, a photographer, a videographer, I don’t even remember what else. Planning a wedding is a huge undertaking. It’s also supposed to be one of the happiest days of your life. So how do you take these two things, immense stress and a celebration of love and make them work together? You ask people who know what they’re doing, people like Jessica Bishop.

[00:01:42]
Jessica Bishop: So I actually was just a humble bride to be myself trying to figure out the crazy roller coaster that is wedding planning. And at the time I was working for a wedding magazine, and so I just really got fully immersed into the world and I’ve worked in the wedding industry ever since.

READ MORE

[00:01:59]
Amanda Greene: She’s the founder of Budgetsavvybride.com, host of the podcast, the Bouquet Toss, and author of a bestselling wedding planning book, the Budget Savvy Wedding Planner and Organizer.

How did you get into wedding planning?

[00:02:13]
Jessica Bishop: So when I was engaged in planning my own wedding, I was looking for resources to help me pull it off within a pretty limited budget at the time. We had decided based on our savings and what we could save over the course of our engagement, that we could spend about $10, 000 and that was all we were going to be able to spend. We were pretty freshly out of college. We wanted to host a large group of our friends who were still very much involved in our lives. So I had to really get creative and come up with resourceful ways to pull off a wedding for 150 guests within a $10, 000 budget. And so that was how the Budget Savvy Bride started.

[00:02:51]
Amanda Greene: So let’s say you just got engaged. What’s the first thing to do?

[00:02:55]
Jessica Bishop: Well, I always tell people to take a moment and just soak up the newly engaged glow. I think there’s always this pressure to just start planning things right away. Your family and friends are going to immediately start asking you, when’s the wedding? What’s the venue? All of the questions, but take a moment and enjoy being engaged and also start having those important conversations with your partner about what is it that we really want out of our wedding day? How do we want to feel? How many people do we want to be there? Getting really clear on what you picture and envision for that day is a key part to starting the planning process.

[00:03:30]
Amanda Greene: How do you temper the expectations of your wedding day being the best day ever with everything that there is to do? There’s a lot of pressure. Do you have any tips how to make it an enjoyable day and not a super stressful day?

[00:03:45]
Jessica Bishop: I think no matter what size budget you’re working with, what your circumstances are, not doing it so DIY that you’re the point person and in charge of everything on the day, I think a day of or month of coordinator is an absolutely worthy investment. You want to be the guest of honor at your wedding. You don’t want to be the director. So having somebody who is in charge, who is going to answer all the questions and deal with all the logistics on the day of is such a worthy investment. And I encourage every couple to do that for their own sanity and enjoyment and their ability to be present on the wedding day. It’s such a cliche, but it truly goes by in such a flash, and you want to be able to be as present as possible with your partner, with your families, with your friends who’ve traveled and you’ve spent all this money to put it together, let somebody else handle all the details on the day.

[00:04:38]
Amanda Greene: That makes a lot of sense. So where do you start?

[00:04:41]
Jessica Bishop: One exercise I find really helpful for couples to go through is almost like a values exercise. What do we really care about? What matters to us about the wedding? And then using that list to prioritize the aspects that you’re going to focus on, you’re probably going to focus more of your money on those aspects. So that’s a really, really helpful exercise I think, just so you’re on the same page and you can use a very detailed checklist to systematically go through the whole process.

[00:05:09]
Amanda Greene: How do you keep all of that organized?

[00:05:10]
Jessica Bishop: Well, luckily there’s a lot of online tools and resources now, but definitely having a dedicated wedding planning binder still, that pen to paper is great. There’s also lots of great digital tools. I’m a big fan of a hybrid approach at this point. I think Google Docs has become an absolute necessity in a lot of people’s lives, and you get that two-way communication or sharing between you, your partner, and potentially your wedding planner or vendors. So it’s a great way to collaborate on things like that.

[00:05:41]
Amanda Greene: The size of your wedding also is going to play a big part in this. What are some of the similarities between planning a bigger wedding versus planning a smaller wedding?

[00:05:49]
Jessica Bishop: Well, all the elements are really the same. When you think about it, you’re going to need a venue photographer, you’re going to need catering, flowers, all the things. All the vendors, all the elements are likely going to be the same regardless of the size of your guest list. But the thing is, when you invite more people, you’re obviously adding up the costs with each additional guest you add. It’s another chair, it’s another meal at the reception, it’s another invitation. For every eight to 10 guests that can fit at a table, it’s another table, centerpiece, flower arrangement, whatever.

And so you really have to be careful and think about, especially if you’re working with a tight budget, exactly how many people you can realistically afford to have because each person is just adding an additional line item to your budget at the end of the day. Cutting your guest list is the simplest way to cut your costs, but it’s not the easiest by any means because it’s so emotional. There’s so many people you would love to include, but at the end of the day, I always encourage being financially responsible when it comes to your wedding.

[00:06:48]
Amanda Greene: It’s hard too because when everyone is asking you about your plans, it almost feels like they’re expecting an invitation.

[00:06:54]
Jessica Bishop: Yeah. Oh, it can be so sticky. And I definitely feel for couples these days because with the economy and inflation and everything else, it just costs more now than it did 15 years ago when I was planning. So it’s definitely a challenge.

[00:07:08]
Amanda Greene: So how do we keep that guest list under control?

[00:07:11]
Jessica Bishop: Well, there’s some good sort of handy rules of thumb that you can use to eliminate people from the guest list. One I really like to suggest is thinking about, would you or you and your fiancé invite this person to dinner and pay for their bill? Because that’s essentially what you’re doing when you’re inviting them to your wedding. If you haven’t physically seen them or spoken to them in at least a year, maybe they don’t need to be included. And really just evaluating, I think it gets into this really tricky territory when you’re like, oh, if I invite this person from this aspect of my life, then I’m going to have to include these other people. It’s all a gut check. But I do think that those handy flowcharts sort of things, there’s one in the book that I think is really helpful in deciding who to include and who not to.

[00:07:57]
Amanda Greene: Like when you’re cleaning out your closet, they say, if you haven’t worn something in a year, you need to donate it. I guess the same goes for a guest list for your wedding. If you haven’t talked to them or seen the person in over a year, it’s probably not essential that you invite them to your wedding.

[00:08:11]
Jessica Bishop: You can always blame it on your venue capacity. We could only fit this number of people. We’re keeping it to our closest family and friends. It’s tough, but you got to do it if you want to stick to your budget.

[00:08:25]
Amanda Greene: I feel like people often think that planning a destination wedding might be a budget-friendly option. What are some of the pros and cons about going the destination route?

[00:08:35]
Jessica Bishop: Yeah, I definitely think there is a certain idea that it could be a way to save money. And I would say the thinking there is more based on the fact that there are going to be guests who self-eliminate from the guest list, maybe because of their schedule or finances or family obligations, whatever the case might be. So your guest list might be smaller with a destination wedding, which could help reduce the cost. But there’s added costs too. In some instances, you’re talking about international travel, you’re talking about a longer stay, you’re not just going for a day. So there are additional costs involved that you really have to weigh all the options and do the math to know whether or not you’re actually saving.

[00:09:17]
Amanda Greene: So Jessica, you are the expert. I’m sure this is probably one of the biggest points for most couples. How do you make a reasonable budget and also the hard part stick to it?

[00:09:27]
Jessica Bishop: Oh, yes, it is the biggest hurdle I think that a lot of couples face, and I really think a lot of it is because of the social media of it all. We’re not just comparing our weddings to the people whose events we’ve actually been invited to and witnessed in person, but we’re seeing weddings online from celebrities and influencers and people who have a completely different set of financial circumstances then we do. And so my best advice for couples is always to really figure out realistically, how much you can actually afford to spend and be committed to not putting yourself into a financially bad situation in order to have this wedding that you can’t actually afford.

Look at your savings, decide how much you want to allocate towards this event, how much you can realistically put away each month to go towards the wedding fund. If you have family members who are able and willing to financially contribute, and you want to accept that help because it often comes with conditions or opinions on how the money should be spent. So it’s always a caveat, I say, but having those discussions with your families and finding out how much are you able to contribute? When will those payments be made? Do you want the contributions you’re making to go towards specific aspects of the wedding? These are all really important conversations to have, and it’s not always comfortable, but it’s so necessary just to have everything be very transparent and clear. And yeah, communication is key always in everything.

[00:10:56]
Amanda Greene: Regardless of the budget. Is there anything that you recommend people always pay for no matter what?

[00:11:03]
Jessica Bishop: Good photography. Honestly, you’re your wedding photos are one of the only tangible reminders of the day that you’ll have, and a good quality photographer is an investment, but those are the things that you’ll be looking back on for years and years to come. You’ll be sharing them with your children and grandchildren, and I’m just such a big believer in capturing those memories professionally.

[00:11:24]
Amanda Greene: Are there any easy things that you recommend people DIY?

[00:11:28]
Jessica Bishop: There’s so many things you can DIY truly, whether it’s decorations. Depending on the type of venue you are using, it’s possible to find venues where you could potentially bring in your own alcohol, which is a great savvy tip because oftentimes professional catering halls or event venues, they have alcohol markup that’s significant. And so if you’re able to control the cost per bottle of the wine or beers that you’re serving, that’s a really great way to save, but not always possible depending on the venue you choose.

[00:12:04]
Amanda Greene: Are you seeing a lot of the older traditions still being upheld, or do you think people are doing their own thing now?

[00:12:10]
Jessica Bishop: I think couples are really blazing their own trail and breaking the rules and making new traditions. I think it’s really amazing. It’s something that we actually talk a lot about on our podcast, the Bouquet Toss, which is an age-old wedding tradition. And what we did in our first season of that show is we actually talked about the history and the origin of where all those traditions came from. You might decide, you know what? This doesn’t really align with us. It doesn’t feel true or right or authentic to who we are as people, so we’re going to toss that tradition. I really love that couples are doing more of that.

[00:12:41]
Amanda Greene: How do you pick the right people to be in your wedding party?

[00:12:45]
Jessica Bishop: It’s a tricky thing, and I think what I’ve seen more of lately is not necessarily always choosing the longest relationships, but the people who are more present in your life right now or the people who you really do see being in your life for many, many years to come. Obviously there’s always the chance of hurt feelings and things going wrong, but at the end of the day, being in someone’s wedding is a responsibility. There’s a lot that comes along with it. Time investment, money, travel, and so you really have to be openly and honestly communicating with those people and finding out if they’re really up to the task.

[00:13:22]
Amanda Greene: Are people tending to keep their wedding parties smaller these days? I feel like, I don’t know, even 15 years ago people had 12 bridesmaids and 12 groomsmen and the lines were so long.

[00:13:33]
Jessica Bishop: I think overall, we’re seeing a lot of couples cut back, not just on their wedding party, but their guest list as well, just because of the sheer money involved in it. And I do think it also has to do with the fact that a lot of couples are getting married a little bit later in life, and so their social circle is maybe a bit smaller as they get older.

[00:13:49]
Amanda Greene: Planning a wedding brings out so many emotions, and it does seem like everyone wants to share their opinion about your wedding when you’re planning it, right? What is the best way to set expectations when it comes to your in-laws, for instance?

[00:14:06]
Jessica Bishop: Oh, that’s an interesting question. I think the best thing you can do is always graciously accept their feedback or ideas, but express you and your partner have made the decisions you have because it’s what feels most true to the two of you. And obviously, like I mentioned, your family is contributing financially perhaps. That can make things a bit more sticky, but it’s just clear communication and a little bit of gentle boundaries I think are helpful in those conversations.

[00:14:39]
Amanda Greene: Do you see people assign maybe them a task or a job so that they are included in a way, but maybe not in the way they were trying to be?

[00:14:47]
Jessica Bishop: Yeah, that’s always a great compromise too. Helping them feel heard and involved is going to go a long way, especially if you might be diverting from their particular wishes. Overall, I think it’s about just mutual respect and understanding that you are joining two families together and you want everyone to feel included.

[00:15:10]
Amanda Greene: What are some hot wedding trends you’re seeing right now?

[00:15:13]
Jessica Bishop: I feel like I’m seeing a lot of food trucks. We’re seeing a lot more non-traditional food elements and also almost making them into art pieces. So I don’t know if you’ve seen they have these really cool, almost, I think it’s like a wafer of some sort. They can monogram it, put the couple’s initials and things like that and put it in the cocktail glasses. I don’t know what the name is for that, but I’ve seen so much of that lately. Also, a really unique statement piece seating chart, which becomes a bit of a photo opportunity as well as an element of interaction where the guests can go up and they can get a key, or sometimes it’s a glass of champagne that has a ring on it that has their table number and their name, so they know where to go sit. So finding ways to make the practical elements of the wedding also interactive and personalized I think adds a lot to the guest experience and is just a really cool photographic detail too.

[00:16:10]
Amanda Greene: Planning a wedding is such a fun thing for a creative person who wants to do all of these ideas, but probably sounds like a nightmare for someone who’s like, whoa, that sounds like a lot of work.

[00:16:19]
Jessica Bishop: You don’t have to go overboard at the end of the day. I really think that the most special weddings are the ones that feel like the couple. You get a real sense of who they are, and that could be as simple as personalizing your wedding vows or having someone you know be your wedding officiant. Those things don’t have to cost any extra money, but they add to that level of personalization and make it feel like your day, not just some generic day that you’ve seen all over Pinterest or Instagram a hundred times.

[00:16:48]
Amanda Greene: From all of your experience, do you have any final words of encouragement for maybe a newly engaged couple starting to plan their wedding?

[00:16:56]
Jessica Bishop: I would say, first of all, just enjoy this time together. Enjoy the engaged period. It doesn’t last long. At the end of the day, you’re only a fiance for so long, and really use this time to dive deep together into what truly matters to you, not just for your wedding day, but for everything that comes after as well.

[00:17:16]
Amanda Greene: So I was looking at your Instagram page and I came across a lot of details that I’ve never thought of, so I’m using that as my inspiration for a few rapid fire questions. Are you ready?

[00:17:28]
Jessica Bishop: Let’s go.

[00:17:28]
Amanda Greene: The best bridal party gift you’ve seen?

[00:17:31]
Jessica Bishop: I really love a nice piece of jewelry, I think is a good memento, something they can wear again. Big fan of things like that.

[00:17:38]
Amanda Greene: Real flowers or fake?

[00:17:41]
Jessica Bishop: Real flowers are super expensive and you might not realize just how much until you get into planning. So I’m a huge fan of a faux floral arrangement.

[00:17:49]
Amanda Greene: Open bar, closed bar?

[00:17:51]
Jessica Bishop: For the budget’s sake, closed bar.

[00:17:53]
Amanda Greene: Are kids invited or is this adults only?

[00:17:56]
Jessica Bishop: I’m a big fan of adults only celebrations, but I’m a childless millennial.

[00:18:01]
Amanda Greene: AI. Using AI to help write your vows?

[00:18:06]
Jessica Bishop: I just can’t. It should come from the heart and AI can be helpful as a tool, but I don’t think you should rely on it completely. I’ll say that.

[00:18:15]
Amanda Greene: Jessica, thank you so much. We appreciate you coming on and sharing.

[00:18:18]
Jessica Bishop: Thank you so much for having me.

[00:18:20]
Amanda Greene: That was Jessica Bishop, the Budget Savvy Bride. So how do you and your partner do everything possible to make your wedding a day to remember? Make a budget and do everything you can to stick to it. Make your day your own by really thinking about what you and your partner value. There are so many details to think of and tasks to be completed. I loved Jessica’s suggestion to find or hire a point person for the wedding day at the very least. You want to be the guest of honor, and I think one of the most important things she said was enjoy yourself.

You’ve been listening to Merging into Life where we navigate life’s milestones, one episode at a time, brought to you by AAA Northeast with assistance from Jar Audio. I’m your host, Amanda Greene. We would love to hear what you think. Your feedback really matters to us. So if you have any ideas for an episode or you just want to say hi, please leave a review wherever you listen or email us at podcast@AAANortheast.com. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are not necessarily the views of AAA Northeast, AAA and or its affiliates.

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RESOURCES

Find Expert Destination Wedding and Honeymoon Planners

How to Plan a Destination Wedding

Great Marriage Proposal Sites in the Northeast

Wedding Planning Guide: The Basics

“The Bouquet Toss” Podcast

Budget Savvy Bride

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Want to Learn More? Drop Us a Note

*The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are not necessarily the views of AAA Northeast, AAA and/or its affiliates.

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IN THIS EPISODE

Planning a dinner party is exciting. Whether it’s for a holiday or a gathering of friends (maybe even a few strangers), there’s nothing like sitting down and sharing a meal. Inviting people into your home to connect and break bread is the ultimate act of hospitality, but there are certain do’s and don’ts to ensure the night flows smoothly.

If you’re wondering how to plan your first dinner party, Dana Marie Roquemore, founder of the Dinner Party Project and professional host, is here to guide you.

So, pick a date, send out your invites (eight guests is ideal) and press play. Roquemore’s hosting tips include everything from picking the perfect menu and setting the table to gracefully wrapping up the evening.

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KEY TAKEAWAYS

[4:20] – How doo you host a dinner party without stress? Planning a dinner party menu without breaking the bank.
[6:26] – How to set a table for a dinner party: keys to nice tablescapes and centerpieces.
[11:26] – The keys to having a successful, meaningful dinner party.

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TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:01]
Amanda Greene: Back in my 20s, there was just so much hanging out all the time. Friends would just stop by. We’d order food, eat together, talk for hours. It’s funny how far away that feels now. I’d love to have friends over again, but with hectic schedules, so little free time, a messy house that would need to be tidied first, and the kids, I just don’t do it anymore, but maybe it’s time that changed. Welcome to Merging Into Life, where we navigate life’s milestones one episode at a time. Brought to you by AAA Northeast. I’m your host, Amanda Greene. Today, we’re going to talk about hosting a dinner party. Dinner parties can be so fun, but also daunting. If you aren’t a very specific kind of person, being responsible for the good times of a group of friends and maybe even strangers is a lot of pressure. But getting together is not only fun, it’s important. A few years ago, the American Heart Association surveyed 1, 000 adults, and 84% of them said they wished they could share a meal with loved ones more often. That’s a lot of people. That same study found a correlation between sharing meals and lowering stress. We owe it to ourselves and the people we care about to get together once in a while and break some bread, even if it’s gluten-free. But there are a lot of elements to hosting. There’s food, drinks, creating ambiance, table settings. But don’t worry, have I got a guest for you.

[00:01:29]
Dana Marie Roquemore: A friend of mine asked me what brings you life and what brings you joy, and what are you not doing that you should be doing? I thought I guess if I could do anything that I wanted to, I would throw dinner parties.

[00:01:39]
Amanda Greene: That’s Dana Marie Roquemore, founder of The Dinner Party Project.

[00:01:43]
Dana Marie Roquemore: It really just started as a project of I have a dining room table that seats 8 people and I’ll invite 7 strangers over to my house to just share a meal together.

READ MORE

[00:01:54]
Amanda Greene: For more than 10 years now, Dana Marie has been throwing dinner parties for a living.

[00:01:57]
Dana Marie Roquemore: Behind the scenes, we’re taking care of everything. The chefs, the cocktails, setting the table, doing the tablescape, custom floral design, custom bar menu, doing the dishes at the end of the night, making sure that everything is flowing smoothly. We really want people to be connected and to feel connected, and around the dinner table is where we’re doing that.

[00:02:18]
Amanda Greene: I love that. Why do you think people are drawn to this type of experience?

[00:02:23]
Dana Marie Roquemore: I believe that we all need connection. I grew up around the dinner table so most nights, I was with my family and I had to look my parents in the eyes and have real conversation. That’s something that I think is incredibly important, to know how to interact with one another, to have real conversation. Maybe we don’t always agree all the time, but how to navigate social dynamics, how to navigate good conversation.

[00:02:45]
Amanda Greene: Do you think meeting in this way, over a meal, changes the dynamic of socializing?

[00:02:52]
Dana Marie Roquemore: I do. I think that it is important to be in that real life moment. For us, it’s about the hosting and about the curation, and that really is what sets us apart than going out to dinner. You can go out to dinner to a loud, noisy restaurant and have a great time. You’re going to have beautiful food and drinks. With the Dinner Party Project, we are really about how do we engage the whole table together. We have a host and that host is really engaging everybody while letting everybody have a turn to speak and to have a conversation about the group dynamics.

[00:03:25]
Amanda Greene: For someone hosting maybe their first dinner party ever, embracing adulting and wanting to gather people in your life to do this, is this the time to get elaborate with a menu or should you keep it simple and mass appeal?

[00:03:40]
Dana Marie Roquemore: I think maybe your level of what is comfortable to you. It will also not be perfect. Before I started the Dinner Party Project, I had a birthday party at my house and I invited probably 18 people or something, and I was doing gnocchi and I didn’t calculate enough and I didn’t have enough food basically for everybody. I didn’t lose any friends, but sometimes it’s like you just got to start. It’s not going to be perfect, and sometimes you are going to have smaller portions that you thought you were going to have, but you’re having fun and people are together and they’re celebrating. The effort is the biggest part and the invitation around the table is the biggest part.

[00:04:21]
Amanda Greene: OK, so how do you plan a menu, especially without breaking the bank?

[00:04:25]
Dana Marie Roquemore: I don’t think it has to blow your budget. I think that there’s great resources out there. Personally, I invest in a cooking app. There’s endless recipes on there. There’s so many ways of getting inspiration. I think a cheese board, charcuterie board can go a long way of just buying a couple cheeses, couple of fruits. You can really, I think, stretch your budget and create what you want with whatever you’re working with.

[00:04:52]
Amanda Greene: What are your thoughts on having a dinner party be a potluck where everyone brings a dish?

[00:04:57]
Dana Marie Roquemore: I love it. I love it.

[00:04:58]
Amanda Greene: Oh.

[00:04:58]
Dana Marie Roquemore: Yes, absolutely. I am for any way that people are gathering together, whether it’s a fancy birthday dinner where you do bring in the chef and you do the whole thing and you ball out or you’re just like yeah, bring over a dish. With that, sometimes I would say know what everyone’s bringing so you don’t have six sides and two desserts and no main. But yeah, I think it’s the inviting and the hosting is the main part and then from there, it’s up to you what you want your evening to look like.

[00:05:33]
Amanda Greene: What about drinks?

[00:05:34]
Dana Marie Roquemore: Yeah.

[00:05:34]
Amanda Greene: Are you typically doing a signature cocktail or do you have a full bar? What do you usually do?

[00:05:42]
Dana Marie Roquemore: If it’s informal, it’s informal, which is awesome. Maybe you have a pitcher of cocktails and people can pour their own or you have wine that’s just at the table. When people come to dinner, sometimes they bring their favorite bottle of wine and we share their favorite bottle of wine around the table, which is fun and sometimes a conversation starter like oh, I had this in Spain and I found it here and I’m bringing it to share with you. We definitely always have a non-alcoholic option. We want people to feel comfortable and safe and included, so we do mocktails, we have sometimes done non-alcoholic wine, and as a host, I really always want to be aware that there is an Uber or there’s a way for them to get home safely.

[00:06:21]
Amanda Greene: What about when it comes to things like the tablescape and centerpieces?

[00:06:25]
Dana Marie Roquemore: Sometimes we have fresh florals at our dinners and sometimes we don’t. Sometimes it’s a mix of candles and found objects, and sometimes we mix that in with eucalyptus or greenery, which is also a very cheap way to make a tablescape look very full. Sometimes you have cute things around your house that you could get a runner and then from there, you could just piece together candles that you have or little found objects or antique things and make it fun. Or, if you want to go and get a couple bunches of flowers, having little bud vases I think makes it look a little bit fuller. If you get hydrangeas, which are really not that expensive usually, and then having a couple of those down the table, that really makes it look full and fun.

[00:07:11]
Amanda Greene: Are those elaborate tablescapes that we often see on Instagram important in setting the mood and the tone and the way that your guests are going to walk away from the experience? Is that a really important part of the dinner party?

[00:07:24]
Dana Marie Roquemore: I think part of it is, especially again, what type of level of hosting that you’re wanting to do. But I think for something special, especially like a birthday or a celebration or a holiday, you really want it to feel like an occasion. Having a beautifully set table I think is really special, and it shows a lot of intention and time and care for your guests. If you came over and you had paper plates and solo cups, that sets one tone for the evening, and that’s one way to gather, which is beautiful. If you have a table set and you have your good silverware out and your good napkins out, it shows people wow, they really care about me being here at the table. I have to hand wash the silverware, I have to wash these napkins and fold them again. I think it does add a really beautiful element to the dining experience.

[00:08:16]
Amanda Greene: Extra care. The care, and the thought, and the planning that went into making it beautiful. People notice those things. Once you have your menu set and your table decorated, it’s time to think about invitations. How many people do you invite?

[00:08:32]
Dana Marie Roquemore: I would say no less than 8. And then more than 12, you lose the intimacy around the table.

[00:08:38]
Amanda Greene: Yeah.

[00:08:39]
Dana Marie Roquemore: I would shoot for maybe 10 because sometimes somebody can’t come at the last minute, so having 8 feels like a really good-sized number.

[00:08:48]
Amanda Greene: That’s manageable. How do I decide who to invite?

[00:08:52]
Dana Marie Roquemore: When I started the Dinner Party Project, I have lived in Orlando for a long time and I know a lot of people casually. You go out to events, you chat them up, but you don’t really know them that well. I was like I would like to know these people a little bit more in depth. I also had a lot of really great friendships with deep friends, but a lot of those friends didn’t know each other and so I was like OK, how do I connect all these people that I kind of know and then meet new people myself? I thought around a dinner table would be a great place to do so. I do believe when you’re thinking of a guest list, you can think maybe of that nature. Who do I want to know better? Or maybe you want them to bring somebody that you don’t know.

[00:09:32]
Amanda Greene: What if the hospitality part of it doesn’t really come naturally to someone? Do you have tips about how to keep the conversation flowing and keep everyone comfortable?

[00:09:40]
Dana Marie Roquemore: We start with introductions and that’s an easy way to get people talking, so going around doing a short intro of themselves. People, for the most part, love talking about themselves. That’s a really easy way to get people rolling. We also have really great conversation starters. One of my favorites is if you could wake up tomorrow with a superpower, what would it be? Or if you could enable one thing into law that everybody had to adhere to, what law would you want to enable? Maybe having a couple of those in your back pocket to say here’s a question for the table and I want to hear from everybody. You could talk about music, you could bring up a film that’s popular at the moment. Have some of those things maybe written down so it doesn’t feel like you will be lost if things get weird.

[00:10:26]
Amanda Greene: Yeah. There’s always one person in every group that insists on helping when they come to your house. They insist on being in the kitchen, coming in and helping, helping to clean up. Should we be letting them?

[00:10:37]
Dana Marie Roquemore: Yes. I think yes and no. If it’s a more formal sit down, maybe if you have help in that situation, then maybe just gently remind them like hey, I want you here and I want you engaged. This is for you. If it’s more of a hang, more casual, more fluid, then maybe if they want to help do the dishes, don’t kick them out of your kitchen because they want to be a part of that, which is fine but yeah, I think the more intentional the night with really people being together, get them out of the kitchen. That’s not their job. Their job is to be a guest and to be with everybody for the duration of the dinner.

[00:11:12]
Amanda Greene: You’ve given a lot of amazing ideas about how to throw a great dinner party, but in your opinion, what are the core most important parts to having a successful, memorable, meaningful dinner party?

[00:11:25]
Dana Marie Roquemore: The first thing, the most important is really to make people feel welcomed. The hosting element is addressing people when they come in. For us, we’re handing them a cocktail or a mocktail, making sure that people are feeling included. They don’t have to be talking. Obviously everyone’s not talking the entire time, but making sure that they’re feeling included and feeling known. I think that’s the most important key element. And then having enough food, which was my rookie mistake a long time ago, but the atmosphere that you’re setting with the music, the ambiance, the connection. Hey, have you met this person? Making sure that everyone feels like they’re part of the conversation.

[00:12:07]
Amanda Greene: I feel like anyone and everyone would want to experience this kind of connection and closeness with their friends and family, but aren’t going about hosting dinner parties. What do you think is stopping people from just doing this more often?

[00:12:19]
Dana Marie Roquemore: I think part of it is being like OK, I am going to host something. What is a date on the calendar? It’s picking a date on the calendar and doing it, just jumping in, just being like okay, on the 7th at 7 p.m., I’m putting this on the calendar, I’m sending out the invitation. It does take intention, but you’re wanting to say I care about you, I want you in my home. People aren’t going to remember the dirty dishes, they’re remembering that you have taken the time and what an honor it is to be invited into someone’s home. I think just starting there. Maybe it’s not even a fancy dinner, maybe it’s a potluck, maybe it’s a picnic. There’s not a lot of out-of-pocket for either of those, but people are going to remember that wow, Amanda invited me over to her house with a handful of friends or maybe people that I didn’t know and I got invited and she asked me thoughtful questions.

[00:13:09]
Amanda Greene: So toss out the idea that it has to be fancy or perfect, I guess, and just gather your people. What is your advice to people to get past the idea that it has to be something perfect and fancy?

[00:13:21]
Dana Marie Roquemore: I think it’s the intention behind it, which is being together. If that is what you want, if that’s really what you’re wanting for your community or your friends then saying I’m just going to start somewhere. You just have to rip off the Band-Aid and be like it’s not going to be perfect the first time, which is totally fine. People really, for the most part, unless the house is on fire, are not really going to remember those details. The details mostly that they’re going to remember is the atmosphere that you’re creating for them and the interest in their life. Invite people in, bring your friends. I always love when people bring somebody that I don’t know, I’m trying to meet new people. Have intention, put it on the calendar, invite your friends and say, at this time on this date, would you like to come over?

[00:14:03]
Amanda Greene: If it sounds like something that you have even a little bit of interest in doing, just do it.

[00:14:07]
Dana Marie Roquemore: Just do it. Just put it out there and you’ll be surprised that … When I started this 10-plus years ago, I was like I don’t know if anybody’s going to come over. I was like I’m going to open my home. I have a table for 8 people, I’m just going to open my doors. It wasn’t a business idea, it was just like I just love having people over. I need something new in my life. I think that people will be more responsive than you think in your head.

[00:14:29]
Amanda Greene: Yeah, I think people are craving community more than ever, and where better to do it than around your dinner table.

[00:14:35]
Dana Marie Roquemore: Mm-hmm.

[00:14:35]
Amanda Greene: Really awesome. Dana Marie, you have me inspired. I’m already trying to think who are my 8 people? Who should I be planning something special for? Before you go, I want to ask you some rapid-fire questions.

[00:14:48]
Dana Marie Roquemore: OK.

[00:14:48]
Amanda Greene: The first thing that comes to mind when it comes to hosting a dinner party, are you ready?

[00:14:53]
Dana Marie Roquemore: Yes.

[00:14:53]
Amanda Greene: As a guest, do you bring something for the host?

[00:14:56]
Dana Marie Roquemore: Yes.

[00:14:57]
Amanda Greene: What are we thinking?

[00:14:58]
Dana Marie Roquemore: A bottle of something is always nice. Candles, honestly, you can’t go wrong with a nice candle. Flowers, nobody would say no to. Or it could be something like a kitchen tool or a pack of playing cards that are really fun.

[00:15:11]
Amanda Greene: I love the idea. A pack of playing cards is a really cute idea. That never crossed my mind. OK, when do you show up? 15 minutes early, right on time, 15 minutes late, or just whenever you feel like it?

[00:15:24]
Dana Marie Roquemore: For me, for our dinner parties, if people arrive right on time, that is the chef’s kiss. Sometimes you’re like please don’t arrive early because you’re still doing the last-minute things. You’re like ahhh. Making the cocktails, doing the thing. I would personally say never to arrive early to a dinner party. What I have also learned with my friends is to say drinks are starting at this time, 5:30, dinner is at 7, because some people are just really late. If I want people there at a very specific time to sit down to dinner, then I tell them drinks are starting at this time, but I want everybody here at this time so we can all sit down together.

[00:16:01]
Amanda Greene: Totally.

[00:16:02]
Dana Marie Roquemore: Just communicating that.

[00:16:03]
Amanda Greene: Is there a way, after this amazing evening and good vibes and everything’s been going great, is there a way to gracefully guide people to the door and signal the night is over?

[00:16:16]
Dana Marie Roquemore: Yeah, absolutely. As the host, you’re there to guide the evening. You’re reading the room, you’re reading when it’s time to wrap up, if it’s time to wrap up for you, then you’re just like oh my gosh, guys, this has been incredible. What a beautiful evening. I am so glad that you shared this night with me. I love it, I hope we can do this again.

[00:16:35]
Amanda Greene: I’m going to be practicing that line because that is the most awkward part of an ending of anything for me. I’m like how do we get out of here? There’s a wrap-up speech, basically. This has been amazing.

[00:16:47]
Dana Marie Roquemore: This has been amazing. I’m so glad that you joined me around my table. What a beautiful night. And then you get up. I think that that signals to people that we’re heading toward a door or we’re heading towards a nightcap somewhere else or wherever. You are the host for the night. This is your dinner, this is your time, so you get to navigate and you get to call when the night is over and how to gracefully wrap up the evening.

[00:17:13]
Amanda Greene: You really have inspired me, so thank you so much for coming on podcast and sharing all of your expertise with us. It’s been great meeting you, Dana Marie.

[00:17:20]
Dana Marie Roquemore: Likewise. My pleasure.

[00:17:25]
Amanda Greene: This is the last episode of season one of Merging Into Life. We really appreciate you joining us, and this is the perfect time to look back over the season. Feel free to go see if you’ve missed something in our previous episodes. There are so many great nuggets to take away. I hope you’ve had as much fun and learned as much as I have along the way. As always, we would love to hear from you. Please leave us a review wherever you listen to your podcasts, or email us at podcast@aaanortheast.com. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are not necessarily the views of AAA Northeast, AAA, and/or its affiliates. OK, so this dinner party thing is happening. I’ve already saved to date. OK, kids, who wants to polish silverware and who wants to dust?

[00:18:08]
Amanda’s Daughter: Not me.

[00:18:09]
Amanda’s Daughter: Not me.

[00:18:10]
Amanda Greene: Neither?

[00:18:11]
Amanda’s Daughter: I would rather relax.

---

RESOURCES

The Dinner Party Project

Get Special Event Insurance with AAA

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Want to Learn More? Drop Us a Note

*The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are not necessarily the views of AAA Northeast, AAA and/or its affiliates.

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IN THIS EPISODE

Traveling to new places is always an adventure, but if you want to escape the mundane and truly explore your own way, you might want to consider renting a car internationally.

Can American tourists drive in Europe? Of course (with an International Driving Permit). Can it still be intimidating? Absolutely.

With great freedom comes great responsibility — and often some anxiety — when you are faced with tiny parking spaces, narrow streets, driving on the left side and other unfamiliar rules of the road. But don’t let that hold you back! Terry Abromitis, aka Traveling Terry, is here to offer her tips on driving in Europe, from discovering off-the-beaten-path destinations to avoiding parking tickets. Also on hand is Kevin Beresford, president of the Roundabout Appreciation Society, whose enthusiasm for traffic circles must be heard to be believed.

Get Your International Driving Permit from AAA.

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KEY TAKEAWAYS

[5:35] – Key things to keep an eye on when driving abroad
[11:01] – The lowdown on roundabouts: how to navigate them, and their advantages
[12:45] – Do you need an international driver’s permit?

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TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:01]
Amanda Greene: A friend of mine just invited me to go on a trip to Europe with her, Europe! I mean, I love the idea of cruising through the French countryside in a little convertible. I can just picture it, wearing a little scarf on my head or renting an Italian villa off the beaten path. Nothing but handmade pasta and sunshine, but the catch, my friend asked if I would split the driving. So that means renting a car and figuring out how to drive in a different country. I have driven in Banff, Alberta and there were far fewer streetlights than I’m used to.

The roads are pretty dark, but other than that, it wasn’t really that different. But Europe, I don’t know. Welcome to Merging into Life where we navigate life’s milestones one episode at a time, brought to you by AAA Northeast. I’m your host, Amanda Greene. Today we’re going to talk about renting a vehicle. The fear of the unknown, it’s a powerful force.

I try not to let that fear stop me from doing the things that I want to do, but that doesn’t mean I’m not really intimidated sometimes. Like driving in a new place. I’m a good driver. I learned on a manual transmission. I’ve had my license for a long time, but when I think of driving in say, Europe, I think of chaotic and confusing roundabouts, narrow streets, lots of pedestrians, tight corners on turns. It all adds up to a pretty stressful mess in my head, but people do it and they love it, even if it’s a little tricky at first.

[00:01:33]
Terry Abromitis: I used to think about going on a road trip around Ireland and I would always say, “Well, I’m going to wait to do that because I don’t want to drive on the other side of the road, so I want to make sure I go with somebody else that will do that.” And then I was like, “Why? Why am I stopping myself?”

[00:01:48]
Amanda Greene: So she did it. She’s doing it now.

READ MORE

[00:01:50]
Terry Abromitis: My name is Terry Abromitis and I go by Traveling Terry.

[00:01:54]
Amanda Greene: Traveling Terry makes content about her life while traveling. She was kind enough to speak to us from a cottage in the Cotswolds, a region in central southwest England.

[00:02:04]
Terry Abromitis: I mean in the movie, The Holiday, this is exactly what it looks like.

[00:02:06]
Amanda Greene: Really? I love that movie.

[00:02:08]
Terry Abromitis: Like today I was just driving around the Cotswolds and it is stunningly beautiful here. I had the windows down and it is like the most beautiful scenery and it’s all these narrow roads that you would go down, that you see in the movies and farms on either side with sheep and horses, maybe a few cars here and there, but I was just like, “This is not what you see on the train.”

[00:02:32]
Amanda Greene: So I guess you’re kind of limited when you’re using public transportation about where you can go. You’re also sticking to a schedule, so the benefits of renting a car, you can go wherever you want whenever you want. What else?

[00:02:44]
Terry Abromitis: I travel alone most of the time, but people that travel with their family, it is so much easier than getting four people on trains, not missing it, keeping all the tickets together. Being able to just load everyone in a car whenever everybody’s ready for it is just it’s so much easier. Or if you’re driving somewhere and you pass this adorable place, you can just pull over, see it, explore it, change your schedule around.

[00:03:09]
Amanda Greene: Yeah. It sounds like renting a car is giving you a better chance to kind of curate your experience to what you’re looking for rather than just like here is the route we can take.

[00:03:18]
Terry Abromitis: Right. And I like to kind of do things a little bit on a whim. I like to figure out my schedule as I’m going because some days I’ve got more energy to do things. Some days I want to just take a day.

[00:03:28]
Amanda Greene: What’s the best place you’ve ever visited that you couldn’t have seen using public transportation?

[00:03:34]
Terry Abromitis: I went to Lucerne, Switzerland. Actually, I stayed outside of Lucerne the first time that I rented a car, and I finally got to kind of expand my search for a place to stay because I knew I was going to have a car so I didn’t have to limit where I was going to be. Usually I have to be in walking distance to a train station or easy cab ride, and this was a little harder. So I found this adorable bee house on a farm with views overlooking Lake Lucerne.

[00:04:03]
Amanda Greene: How was having a rental car, your own wheels necessary to have that experience?

[00:04:09]
Terry Abromitis: Well, first of all, I do like to pack not so lightly. I like to pack really heavy, so to have a car and not worry about schlepping my bags onto a train and off a train and all of that is just less stress for me. But this farm had a long dirt road to get to it. I think the only way to really do it with public transportation was to take a train into Lucerne than there’s some kind of a bus that takes you to some stop. Then you have to walk up this dirt road, which is really long past cows. And it just would’ve been really challenging. And then I wanted to go into the city, so I would have to then do that every time I wanted to go see something in the city or to get anywhere else.

[00:04:48]
Amanda Greene: It sounds like you’ve really had the chance to see a lot of cool things because you worked past all of those perceived obstacles that you kind of thought were going to be there with renting a car and now you’re super comfortable doing it because you’ve done it over and over again.

Save on Hertz Car Rentals with AAA

[00:05:02]
Terry Abromitis: Yeah. Once I got over the initial fear and I did it and realized it’s really not that hard, exactly.

[00:05:09]
Amanda Greene: What about things like gas prices? Should we expect to pay more when we’re traveling?

[00:05:13]
Terry Abromitis: It’s pretty expensive here. Yes. And it’s by the liter. So for me, I usually have a difficult time telling how it compares to the US, but when I fill up an entire tank of gas, I usually can figure out is it more or less. And typically it’s double what I would pay to fill up my car.

[00:05:31]
Amanda Greene: And then what about tolls and maybe even getting a ticket?

[00:05:35]
Terry Abromitis: Some countries have more tolls than others. I’m talking to Greece. They have tolls constantly, but the easy thing is that they pretty much all take credit cards or any kind of a card. So when you get up there, all you have to do is tap or insert and you go. So they make it really, really easy. When it comes to tickets, well, sometimes you get a surprise in the mail a few months later and then you realize you drove in a zone that you weren’t supposed to drive in.

[00:06:01]
Amanda Greene: Did you get a ticket? This sounds like you’re speaking from experience.

[00:06:05]
Terry Abromitis: I got it. Six months later. I got a ticket from Bologna because I did not realize that when I was driving to where I was staying, I went into their Zona traffico limitato which means like a limited traffic zone. So you have to have a special permit. And that is one that you want to make sure that you don’t drive there or if you’re staying at a hotel that’s in the zone, a lot of times you can call the hotel ahead and they will take your license plate and they report it to the police so that you don’t get a ticket. So definitely do that.

[00:06:37]
Amanda Greene: Are there any other stressors that come up when renting abroad?

[00:06:40]
Terry Abromitis: Narrow roads, narrow parking spaces, finding parking, which oftentimes is very easy. If you’re using a navigation app, the one that I use, you can actually look for public parking areas in the city and then you can navigate to it. The biggest thing would be if you’re traveling during a peak time and it’s really crowded, then you may have trouble finding a spot somewhere.

[00:07:04]
Amanda Greene: What do you think about all the roundabouts? That’s something that I think is a little more common in other countries.

[00:07:09]
Terry Abromitis: Try doing it in a country that’s driving on the other side.

[00:07:13]
Amanda Greene: Oh.

[00:07:13]
Terry Abromitis: So yeah.

[00:07:13]
Amanda Greene: Wowy.

[00:07:14]
Terry Abromitis: When I first got to the UK, the first time that I rented here, it was completely against my natural instincts of where to look, where to be in the roundabout. So I do have a tip.

[00:07:26]
Amanda Greene: Yes.

[00:07:27]
Terry Abromitis: If you’re driving in another country that drives on the other side, you need to start getting your muscle memory to switch. You have to look right and it’s hard to get used to that. That’s probably the biggest challenge I’ve had. So I have entered a roundabout without looking and not realizing it until I got into the roundabout, and luckily I got in there safely. But you definitely want to practice a little bit, but it can be intimidating.

[00:07:51]
Amanda Greene: Intimidating, but fascinating. We in the Northeastern United States have roundabouts, but they aren’t as baked into our everyday driving as they are for some people in other parts of the world. So if we’re going to drive abroad, let’s try to remove any negative feelings and learn to love traffic circles. We’ll come back to Terry in a minute, but in the meantime, I’d like to introduce you to someone.

[00:08:14]
Kevin Beresford: My name is Kevin Beresford and I’m the president of the UK Roundabout Appreciation Society, also known as Lord of the Rings. That’s my official title.

[00:08:23]
Amanda Greene: Love that. The Roundabout Appreciation Society, that’s amazing. Tell me more.

[00:08:28]
Kevin Beresford: Well, we call them roundabouts, but the French call them giratoires I think the Americans call them circles and a lot of people call them traffic islands. So they’re just a way of filtering traffic through a roundabout piece of architecture.

[00:08:43]
Amanda Greene: So Lord of the Rings, how do you get a title like that?

[00:08:47]
Kevin Beresford: Back in 2003, I ran a small printing company in a town called Redditch, and Redditch at the time was a new town and we didn’t have a lot going for us. We had, this is true, by the way, we had three prisons but no cinema. But what we did have was a copious amount of roundabouts, and each year we wanted to come up with a calendar that reflected Redditch, and so we chose roundabouts for this calendar for that year in 2003. What we didn’t realize, it went viral. It sold worldwide. It was on the TV. I did interviews from all around the world. It was just meant for a joke initially, but then I thought, I got interested in it, these amazing round pieces of architecture. And so the roundabouts of Redditch, Canada spawned the best of British roundabouts, which we do now, which I’m very busy at the moment producing.

[00:09:34]
Amanda Greene: So that first calendar that featured roundabouts of Redditch spawned almost a way of life for you. When I picture a roundabout, I think of a roadway around a patch of grass. Kevin, what are you seeing that I’m not?

[00:09:48]
Kevin Beresford: I mean, I’ve seen paintings, statues, planes, trains, churches, pubs. I mean, up in Yorkshire, in England, we’ve got a windmill on a roundabout that produces flour. And that’s my whole point, anything can go on a roundabout and that’s what makes them so special. We see a roundabout as an oasis on a sea of asphalt.

[00:10:11]
Amanda Greene: That’s a great way of looking at it.

[00:10:13]
Kevin Beresford: There’s a listed duck pond down in Otford and in the middle of that duck pond, in this traffic island, there’s a little hut where all the ducks live and the locals call that Duckingham Palace.

[00:10:25]
Amanda Greene: Oh.

[00:10:25]
Kevin Beresford: Now, only roundabouts could boast that. Traffic lights can’t boast that, can they? Our society hates traffic lights. You have to stop when they tell you, you have to go when they tell you. But with a roundabout, it suits the British sort of sense of decorum and etiquette. You choose where you want to go in the traffic flow and you join it at your own speed, and you new exit it. It’s so quintessentially English, the roundabout.

[00:10:52]
Amanda Greene: Kevin, you make it sound so simple. For the intimidated or unsure, give us the basics. How do you navigate a roundabout?

[00:11:01]
Kevin Beresford: The only one simple rule, is so easy, roundabouts, is you just yield to the traffic on the right. That’s all you have to do, is yield to the traffic on the right. You’re with me? That’s it. That’s it.

[00:11:13]
Amanda Greene: And that role stands for all the countries that drive on the left as they do in the UK. But I will note that if you’re like the other two thirds of the global population who drives on the right, yield to the left.

[00:11:25]
Kevin Beresford: But that’s it.

[00:11:26]
Amanda Greene: What else do you like about roundabouts?

[00:11:28]
Kevin Beresford: By installing roundabouts, there’s been a tremendous amount of research. Okay?

[00:11:33]
Amanda Greene: There has.

[00:11:33]
Kevin Beresford: In America, they know it’s the safest form of filtering traffic. Okay? Because everyone’s going in the same direction. If you have a collision on a roundabout, right? It’s just a sideswipe. There’s no head- on collision. But they’re also greener. When it comes to traffic lights, it’s stop and go, stop and go, which is not good for the ecology of it all. But with a roundabout, everything’s constantly moving. Don’t you find traffic lights irritating when you have to stop when there’s nothing going past, yeah? But with a roundabout, everything’s…

[00:12:05]
Amanda Greene: Still flowing. What are some of the disadvantages? There are none.

[00:12:10]
Kevin Beresford: It’s safer, more efficient, it’s greener. Where is a disadvantage of it?

[00:12:11]
Amanda Greene: Well, there you have it. There’s nothing to be scared of. And as Kevin says, all you have to do is yield to oncoming traffic and go at your own pace. With his enthusiasm, I’m almost looking forward to trying a roundabout on the opposite side of the road. Let’s get back to Traveling Terry. Let’s switch gears a little bit, renting a car and some of the things that we need to know. For example, do you get an international driver’s license? Is that something we need?

[00:12:45]
Terry Abromitis: I do. There’s a debate of whether you need an IDP, an international driving permit when you rent a car in another country, and there are a lot of rental companies that may not ask you for it, but I am always in the camp of it is better to have something and not need it than to get somewhere and you don’t have it.

[00:13:04]
Amanda Greene: Oh, a hundred percent. I’m with you. I would rather be extra prepared just in case, than be in a situation where I’m being asked for something that I don’t have.

[00:13:11]
Terry Abromitis: I have been asked for it, I think once or twice, but had I shown up with no IDP, I don’t know what I would’ve done. I don’t know that they would’ve given me the car.

[00:13:20]
Amanda Greene: Interesting. And how did you go about doing that?

[00:13:23]
Terry Abromitis: It’s actually really easy. So AAA has a way to get an IDP really simply. They have an application on their website. I printed the application, I filled it out. I went and got my two little photos, passport type photos, and then I brought everything to a AAA location near me, and then it’s good for one year.

[00:13:43]
Amanda Greene: How do you pick a rental company when you’re making a reservation in a country you’ve never been to before?

[00:13:50]
Terry Abromitis: Well, I personally like to go through a third party app or third party website, and then that will generate several companies so I can choose which one. And it makes it easier to compare the prices than to go on every single brand’s website. And I most of the time will go by what is a brand I’m comfortable with. Sometimes I haven’t, but I’ve found there to be more comfort and easier rental situation with some of the more familiar brands and not the international brands., but sometimes they’re a little farther away from the airport than some of the bigger companies. So I use that and I will then filter it down to have an automatic transmission because I personally cannot use manual whether I’m in the US, in my driveway or anywhere. So I’m getting an automatic.

[00:14:43]
Amanda Greene: I learned on a standard.

[00:14:44]
Terry Abromitis: I can’t do it.

[00:14:45]
Amanda Greene: And that is more common in Europe, right?

[00:14:47]
Terry Abromitis: And it’s usually less expensive for renting, especially you’re going to rent in the UK or in a country that drives on the other side. You have to remember that if you’re getting a manual, even if you’re good at it, that’s going to be your left hand. So it’s-

[00:15:02]
Amanda Greene: Ooh.

[00:15:02]
Terry Abromitis: … an extra.

[00:15:03]
Amanda Greene: That’s a really good point.

[00:15:04]
Terry Abromitis: Yeah.

[00:15:05]
Amanda Greene: Didn’t cross my mind.

[00:15:06]
Terry Abromitis: Yep.

[00:15:06]
Amanda Greene: Wow. Okay. So if we can get an automatic, is there anything else that Americans might be surprised about vehicles in other countries?

[00:15:14]
Terry Abromitis: They have very small vehicles, which sometimes might be easier to navigate certain streets and certain towns. I personally, I’m such an SUV girl, I cannot, my spatial recognition and spatial awareness on the sides of me are not good when I’m sitting low. So I typically filter it down by an SUV. I’ll try to get a compact SUV, but they have a lot of small mini options, which is also so much less expensive when you rent. So that’s something to consider as well.

[00:15:46]
Amanda Greene: And probably less stressful with parking.

[00:15:48]
Terry Abromitis: You can fit in a lot more places. That’s true.

[00:15:51]
Amanda Greene: That’s good to know. What about insurance? How do you navigate that?

[00:15:54]
Terry Abromitis: It’s very complicated to me. Some people have insurance through their credit cards. Some people get insurance when they first rent the car. Some people get insurance when they’re checking out and they’re upsold on the insurance. So that is something that you should probably look into and see what is the best fit for your personal situation.

[00:16:12]
Amanda Greene: I asked our very knowledgeable friends at AAA about insurance on a rental car, and this is what they said. If you’re driving within the United States and Canada, the coverage you have on your car is exactly the same as what you carry over to the rental car. No more, no less. So if you don’t have physical damage coverage on your personal cars, you won’t have it on those you rent. So you may need to purchase additional insurance. Some insurance companies will not cover loss of use of the rental car. So this may be something that you’d want to check out before relying on your existing policy. You have been on so many adventures. What‘s your best driving in a foreign country story?

[00:16:52]
Terry Abromitis: Well, one of the best adventures, I was not the one driving because this is a destination that I probably personally would not rent a car or drive in a rental car, and that would be the Amalfi Coast. Because the Amalfi Coast is right on the edge of a cliff. Then roads are narrow, especially going around really tight turns. And then you’ve got Vespas zipping around you, and then you also have these massive tourist buses that fly around the corner right at you. So I actually booked an experience where I got to ride passenger in a vintage Fiat 500, like 1952. It is so tiny. It was a little red, beautiful car. I had in my driver, Antonio, and he lives on the Amalfi Coast, so he knew what he was doing. We had a bus coming towards us. He knew exactly how to navigate around it, so we survived. I’m still here. But it is dicey on that road, but you don’t want to not go to the Amalfi Coast because of that.

[00:17:55]
Amanda Greene: Do you have any last words of encouragement for someone who is about to take a trip considering renting in a foreign country? What kind of tips would you leave them with?

[00:18:05]
Terry Abromitis: The biggest thing is just having confidence and getting over the hurdle of thinking it’s really difficult or it’s something that a certain kind of a person does. If you know how to drive and you’re comfortable driving, you don’t want to miss out on some of these incredible parts of the world and these stunning destinations and experiences and people that you meet. And as somebody that travels solo, you also don’t want to wait for somebody else that has to take you.

So I just think it is something you don’t want to miss out on, and you don’t realize what you’re missing until you do it, and then it opens up like a whole new world for you. So for me, it was life- changing. I mean, now a road trip around Ireland or England, which I’m doing right now is not off the table for me anymore, and I don’t need to wait for somebody to go with me so I can do it. So I don’t want anyone else to miss out on any of those experiences.

[00:19:04]
Amanda Greene: Before I let you go, we’re going to do a couple rapid fire questions. Are you ready?

[00:19:07]
Terry Abromitis: Yeah.

[00:19:08]
Amanda Greene: The best country to drive in?

[00:19:09]
Terry Abromitis: Germany.

[00:19:10]
Amanda Greene: The hardest country to drive in?

[00:19:12]
Terry Abromitis: Italy.

[00:19:13]
Amanda Greene: The strangest rule of the road that you’ve come across?

[00:19:17]
Terry Abromitis: The Italians not driving in any lane, but in the middle. It’s an unwritten rule of the road.

[00:19:22]
Amanda Greene: So a lack of a rule. What’s the most lost you’ve ever gotten?

[00:19:26]
Terry Abromitis: I did have trouble. I was driving through a very, very small town in Sicily. I was meeting somebody who lived there, and they lived in the center of this little city, and these roads were so narrow and I had an SUV like I was telling you, and I just could not get through. And then if I got too far and I couldn’t get through, then I had to backtrack backwards down the same tiny streets. So yes.

[00:19:49]
Amanda Greene: It was that tight?

[00:19:50]
Terry Abromitis: Yes, it was pull your mirrors in tight.

[00:19:54]
Amanda Greene: Wow.

[00:19:54]
Terry Abromitis: Yeah.

[00:19:55]
Amanda Greene: Wow.

[00:19:55]
Terry Abromitis: That’s when you want to have the mini.

[00:19:57]
Amanda Greene: Good tip. I was looking at your social media content and you’ve gone on some really great adventures. What were some of the most exciting modes of transportation you’ve taken?

[00:20:07]
Terry Abromitis: Oh, I’ve got a lot. I’ve taken a couple of sidecar tours, Florence, Normandy, and then recently around Amsterdam. I’ve done the vintage Fiat 500. I went in a Ferrari.

[00:20:19]
Amanda Greene: Okay.

[00:20:19]
Terry Abromitis: From Bologna to the Ferrari Museum.

[00:20:22]
Amanda Greene: Okay. You must have felt very fancy in a Ferrari.

[00:20:24]
Terry Abromitis: I did. It was me and an Italian man. And then he all of a sudden we get off the highway and we’re on this road, and he looks over at me and was like, “Do you want to drive?” And I said, ” Are you sure you want to trust me with that?” And then I look and it is an automatic transmission, so I was like, “At least I know I could drive it physically.” So I said “YOLO,” and I got in the driver’s seat and I drove that Ferrari.

[00:20:49]
Amanda Greene: That’s amazing. Thank you so much for coming on and giving us a little taste of your life and sharing all of your adventures. We really appreciate it.

[00:20:56]
Terry Abromitis: Thank you for having me.

[00:20:59]
Amanda Greene: You know what? I think I’m going to do it. Terry has inspired me to get out of my comfort zone and get behind the wheel, see more things. But first, I think I’m going to have to go back and give our budget episode a listen, because driving in Europe is one thing, but paying for a trip is another.

You’ve been listening to Merging into Life where we navigate life’s milestones one episode at a time, brought to you by AAA Northeast with assistance from JAR Audio. I’m your host, Amanda Greene. If you’re learning as much as I am, follow us wherever you get your podcasts and leave a review. We would love to know what you think. Email us at podcast@aaanortheast.com. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are not necessarily the views of AAA Northeast, AAA, and or its affiliates.

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RESOURCES

Get Your International Driving Permit From AAA

Should You Buy Rental Car Insurance?

The Perfect Tuscany Road Trip

How to Use a Roundabout

Hertz Car Rental

Traveling Terry

Roundabout Appreciation Society

---

Want to Learn More? Drop Us a Note

*The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are not necessarily the views of AAA Northeast, AAA and/or its affiliates.

---

IN THIS EPISODE

For many of us, retirement is a bit of an abstract idea. It seems so far away that it can be hard to picture. It’s also easy to feel like we have more time to plan than we do, so it often gets put on the back burner. This is one of the most common retirement planning mistakes.

No one knows how long they’ll get to enjoy their retirement or if they’ll ever find themselves in circumstances that make it easier – or more difficult – to save for the future. With so many unknowns, figuring out how to save for retirement can be a challenge.

Step 1: Just start. The earlier the better, too, because you’re never going to get any younger. Your future self will thank you when you have the money to make your non-working years more fun.

Join us for this retirement 101 episode as we talk to Pamela Capalad, a certified financial planner and accredited financial counselor, about different types of retirement plans and how to take control of your personal finances. This is a must-listen retirement savings guide for young adults wondering, “How can I save for retirement in my 20s?” Pamela discusses some of the best retirement accounts for beginners, explains the difference between a 401(k) and an IRA and walks through the process of opening a Roth IRA for the first time.

What is the FIRE movement? Julien and Kiersten Saunders are also here to explain how you can achieve Financial Independence and Retire Early. With the right retirement planning it is possible!

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KEY TAKEAWAYS

[3:31] – Where to begin with retirement planning.
[7:57] – The 411 on 401(k)s with and without employer contributions.
[12:19] – The basic principles of the FIRE Movement.
[14:14] – The FIRE movement vs. basic retirement planning.

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TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:02]
Amanda Greene: When I was little, I didn’t think much about my golden years, but anytime I would picture my future, I’d be in a cafe in Paris.

[00:00:11]
Parisian Server: Bonjour, madame.

[00:00:12]
Amanda Greene: Sipping an espresso outside in one of those side street cafes.

[00:00:17]
Parisian Server: What cafe, madame?

[00:00:18]
Amanda Greene: But now, so many years later, that’s a lot harder to picture. I’m not retiring anytime soon, but thinking about how much I’m going to have to save in order to relax in Europe in my sixties? Yikes. I might have a lot of work to do. How do I even get on track? Welcome to Merging into Life where we navigate life’s milestones one episode at a time. Brought to you by AAA Northeast, I’m your host, Amanda Greene. Today we’re going to talk about retirement. It’s probably closer than I think. It’s definitely closer than it feels. So, let’s dive in. We aren’t going to give you financial advice, but we will define some terms and figure out how to get started, and then, how to keep going. Today we have Julien and Kiersten Saunders, experts in creating financial freedom. That’s a big goal. So, let’s start with the basics with Pamela Capalad.

[00:01:14]
Pamela Capalad: In college, I did a summer camp for kids called The Money Camp, and I was teaching kids financial literacy. I was teaching 10-year-olds and 11-year-olds about budgeting and the stock market and retirement and credit cards and all of these things that I never got as a kid. I was like, “You know what? I think every kid in America needs this.” So that’s how I ended up in the financial industry.

READ MORE

[00:01:36]
Amanda Greene: Pamela, money can be so hard to talk about. I’m glad you’re here to make this easier. Tell me about yourself.

[00:01:41]
Pamela Capalad: So, I’m the co-founder of Get Shameless Inc. with my husband, Dyalekt. I’m a certified financial planner and accredited financial counselor, and yes, I agree. Money is so hard to talk about, and that’s kind of why I do this.

[00:01:57]
Amanda Greene: I’ve seen how you break this down, and I really like how you simplify how all of this works.

[00:02:01]
Pamela Capalad: One of the big things that I learned, the financial industry in particular, wealth management in general, was the jargon is so jargony that if you ever feel bad that you don’t understand hearing something the first time, don’t. I literally remember subscribing to the Wall Street Journal, and I was like, “I’m going to read it every day, and I’m going to learn everything I need to learn.” Literally, a month later, I was like, “I have no idea what anyone has said in any of these articles.”

[00:02:28]
Amanda Greene: Yes.

[00:02:29]
Pamela Capalad: It took me a year to understand how retirement accounts worked, and I was working in the field. And, so, as we go through this today, and we talk about all these acronyms and all these rules and all these penalties and things like that, just please, I want to implore you to get shameless about what you don’t know.

[00:02:44]
Amanda Greene: I love that, get shameless about it, because I think there is some shame attached to sometimes what you don’t know and also maybe your relationship with money, but there is a lot to understand that I don’t personally feel very confident about. What do you say to people? How do they get past that insecurity of not really knowing?

[00:03:03]
Pamela Capalad: So, I think the very first thing is to figure out how to put yourself in a comfortable place, whether that is having a meal with someone, whether that is putting on your favorite TV show, whether that is pouring glass of wine while you look at your 401(k). You don’t have to be in work mode while you’re thinking about your money. You don’t have to muscle through it or put the pressure on yourself to say, “I’m going to learn all of this in a day.”

[00:03:26]
Amanda Greene: So, when it comes to retirement planning, something that we all have to think about at some point, where do we even begin?

[00:03:34]
Pamela Capalad: Yeah, one of the things that I have started ruminating on is that goals don’t always lead to habits, but habits always lead to goals. I think that when we try to start with a huge goal and think about it in the beginning, sometimes the number feels so big that we give up already. You need a million dollars in retirement, you should have three times your salary by the time you’re 30 in your retirement account, and people hear that, and they’re like, “Wait, but I don’t have anything in my retirement account. OK, forget it.” And, so, instead of trying to think about how much money you should have at a certain point, just start doing it. You’re just saying, “Oh yeah, that’s just what I do.” And, so, when you start to build that habit, then the goals that are tailored to you, because you have been the one thinking about them, will actually start to come naturally. I recommend starting with just doing it.

[00:04:25]
Amanda Greene: They say that about anything. You want to start a new exercise routine, you want to eat healthier, you want to do anything? Just start.

[00:04:31]
Pamela Capalad: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. The goals will come. So it’s never too early, and it’s never too late either. The earlier the better, yes, technically with the numbers of course, but a lot of us, especially when we’re younger, one, don’t necessarily have access to a 401(k), you’ve never heard of an IRA, you’re not thinking about it yet. And, so, the first thing is to make sure that you feel comfortable today, and that means having money in a savings account. So, whatever that savings amount is for you to be comfortable to say, “OK, and now I can start putting money aside towards retirement.” The next thing is if you work at a job, and that offers a 401(k), we call them retirement accounts, and my hands in air quotes, but we call them retirement accounts because of the way that they are taxed and the rules around them. So, really, in the industry, the jargon is also tax advantaged accounts, tax deferred accounts, and all of that stuff also means retirement accounts when you hear this.

[00:05:29]
Amanda Greene: So, a retirement account, a tax deferred account, means that we are investing, stop me if I’m using wrong words.

[00:05:36]
Pamela Capalad: Yes.

[00:05:36]
Amanda Greene: We’re investing money pre-taxed or untaxed into an account, and then, once we are of retirement age and we want to begin using the money, then it is taxed?

[00:05:48]
Pamela Capalad: Yes, exactly. You got it. That’s how traditional retirement accounts work. And I’m saying traditional because traditional 401(k)s, traditional IRAs, SEP IRAs, and IRA stands for individual retirement arrangement. All of those accounts, the benefit of putting the money in there is you’re not paying taxes now. So, if you make $50,000 a year, and you put $ 5,000 into your 401(k), you’re only taxed on $45,000 of money and not $50,000, so you save money on taxes upfront.

[00:06:17]
Amanda Greene: OK.

[00:06:18]
Pamela Capalad: Then, what happens is it grows and grows and grows and grows, and then, when you’re in retirement, the assumption is that that’s going to be your income for retirement, and you take the money out, and you’re taxed on that. So, let’s say you take $10,000 out of your 401(k) at age 65, you get taxed on $10,000, not the whole account. Yeah. So, the taxation part, the tax benefits part is really the biggest benefit of a retirement account or a tax advantaged account like a 401(k).

[00:06:46]
Amanda Greene: I feel like I hear people talk about an IRA and a Roth IRA, and are they the same thing? Are they different things? What’s the difference?

[00:06:54]
Pamela Capalad: Roth IRAs, traditional IRAs, SEP IRAs, simple IRAs, there’s so many kinds of IRAs.

[00:07:00]
Amanda Greene: There’s more.

[00:07:01]
Pamela Capalad: Yeah, I want to stick with traditional vs. Roth because it’s all about how it’s taxed. So, let’s pretend that you are an apple farmer, and you get these apple seeds to plant a big apple orchard. You get these seeds, and you’re so excited, and the tax person comes knocking at your door, and they’re like, “Hey, I hear you’re about to plant some apples. We need to collect taxes, but I’m going to be nice. I’m going to give you an option. You can either pay taxes on the seeds now, or I’m not going to collect taxes on the seeds, but when you got that big apple orchard, I’m going to collect taxes on the apples.” And, so, what do you choose? It depends. So, if you have the money to pay taxes on the seeds now, you’re like, “Here you go, fine.” And then when you pay taxes on the seeds now, you get to keep all of the apples, and you don’t owe any taxes on them. That’s a Roth IRA. A Roth IRA is you pay taxes on the money you put in now, on the seeds now, and then you get to enjoy your apples tax-free.

[00:07:57]
Amanda Greene: OK, that makes sense. So, then a 401(k) is paying taxes on the apples after they’ve grown and are ready to harvest. I like that. So, when it comes to retirement planning, and we want to begin with looking in to see if our workplace has a 401(k), how does it work with an employer matching contributions?

[00:08:15]
Pamela Capalad: The matching is huge. So matching is basically free money. What that means is that if you work for an employer, and they say, “We match up to 3%.” That means if you put up to 3% into your 401(k), then they will put another 3% in there on your behalf. And a lot of times a lot of companies have what’s called vesting, so you have to stay in the company for at least a certain period of time to receive the money. You can’t just take your 3%, quit next month, and leave, but usually the vesting is between one to three years. And so as long as you stay in a company for a certain period of time and you leave, then that money is yours.

[00:08:50]
Amanda Greene: OK.

[00:08:50]
Pamela Capalad: And, so, that is the very first step is really to say, what’s my 401(k) plan? What is the matching? And, if you can, put up to the match amount.

[00:08:59]
Amanda Greene: So how about if your workplace does not match your 401(k)?

[00:09:03]
Pamela Capalad: So, if your employer doesn’t match, you should still contribute to your 401(k). And in general, start with a small percentage, start with a percentage that you feel like is manageable because you can change how much you contribute at any time. If you start with a small percentage and you’re like, “Oh, that was nothing. I didn’t even feel that. Let me increase my percentage.” Then you can go in and do that so you’re not stuck with the amount that you chose at the beginning.

[00:09:27]
Amanda Greene: What are the things to be aware of when putting money away for retirement?

[00:09:30]
Pamela Capalad: Oh, yeah. There is a lot of rules with these retirement accounts, but all of these accounts have specific tax advantages, which means they have specific rules around them. The biggest one is that you have to leave the money in the account until you’re age 59 1/2, or you have to, if you take the money out before that, you have to pay the taxes that you owe on that money and a 10% penalty on top of that. So, if you’re trying to take $10,000 out of your retirement account, you might only be left with 5 after taxes and penalties, so that’s a huge thing to consider as you put money away is the intention is for that money to not be touched until you’re 60 or older essentially.

[00:10:07]
Amanda Greene: It does seem like there are a lot of rules with whatever direction you’re going in, and you need to understand the rules.

[00:10:13]
Pamela Capalad: Yeah, that’s a big one. And then the other one is that there are contribution limits on how much you can put into a retirement account every single year, and every year it goes up, and when you’re over a certain age, you can put catch up contributions, what they’re called. If you go over that amount, then you might have to pay a penalty as well if you go over the contribution limit.

[00:10:32]
Amanda Greene: So, once you put that money into your retirement savings, it’s pretty much in there for the long haul. I like all this info about starting and making habits. We’re going to get back to Pamela later, but right now I’d like to bring in Kiersten and Julien Saunders.

[00:10:47]
Kiersten Saunders: We run a financial platform called Rich and Regular, and we are basically documenting our journey to financial independence. We started getting really interested in the personal finance movement about 10 or 12 years ago and started writing about it in 2017, and that blog has evolved into a podcast, a YouTube channel, a video series, a book called “Cashing Out: Win the Wealth Game by Walking Away.” And, so, we’re just two people who live in Atlanta and love to talk about money when we’re not chasing our s7 1/2-year-old son around.

[00:11:20]
Amanda Greene: Now, this is something I have been hearing about, the FIRE movement. Can you explain that to me?

[00:11:25]
Kiersten Saunders: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. FIRE is an acronym for a financial independence, retire early, and there’s a lot of dialogue around which one is more important, the financial independence or the early retirement part. There are people who identify with one half of the acronym more than the other half, people who want to be financially independent but love their jobs and don’t plan on retiring. It doesn’t really matter what flavor you choose, it’s just getting to a point where money is not the deciding factor for the big decisions in your life. There are so many of us that are guided by whether or not we need the money when we’re making decisions about whether to spend more time with our parents or our spouse or our children or just doing the things that we love. And the point of this movement is to try to unlock you from some of those things.

[00:12:10]
Amanda Greene: If someone wants to jump on board and really take charge of their finances and be part of the FIRE movement, what are the basic principles to this?

[00:12:19]
Julien Saunders: So, I think unless you are a complete novice to personal finance, you’ve likely heard a standard rule that you should save 10 to 15% of your income and stash that money aside, whether you’re saving it or investing it in preparation for retirement. Now, if that’s the case, then we should be asking ourselves, “Well, what would happen if we saved 20% or 30% or 40%?” You may get really crafty and decide that you are going to live dramatically under your means so that you can maximize what you’re saving and or investing. And what happens is if you keep that up over a while, and you find a really good healthy balance between living well-below your means while still enjoying and maintaining a good quality of life, and you are now saving and investing that money, what starts to happen over time due to compounding interest is that your money starts to out-earn you. So, if you’re making $50,000 a year, the moment your money starts to earn more than $50,000 in interest, at that point you become a version of financially independent, and you just have so many more options available to you.

[00:13:20]
Amanda Greene: And living below your means for many people would mean rethinking your lifestyle.

[00:13:26]
Julien Saunders: Yeah.

[00:13:26]
Kiersten Saunders: That’s the hard part. That is what prevents a lot of people from even doing the research on the different flavors of FI, which is short for financial independence. It’s the idea of needing to let go of an identity or a lifestyle that you’ve taken a lot of pride in, and you really have to want freedom more than you want those other things. And that takes a while. That’s a process when you live surrounded by consumerism and in the kind of capitalism that we have. But once you do it, it becomes like second nature, and you don’t even think twice about some of the decisions that you may see your friends and family in some cases making.

[00:14:06]
Amanda Greene: It sounds like you almost need to get uncomfy for a little while with all of the feelings. Then work through those before you can be comfortable and get to the FI part of this.

[00:14:14]
Julien Saunders: Yeah, it sounds very eye-roll inducing or sounds very arrogant in some ways to say the money solves all your problems, but I can tell you from firsthand experience, but also from having thousands of conversations with people around the world about money, we’ve met people who have five times more money than we do, and they’re still working, because they’re not really sure what the future will bring. We’ve met people who have half of the money that we have, and they are living their best life comfortable and having fun and doing all of the things that are most important to them. And, so, we can talk about the numbers. That magical number more often than not is right around 25 times whatever you spend on an annual basis. So, if you spend X amount of dollars on the annual basis, the moment you have 25 times that, and that is invested for you, whether it’s in real estate or property, and maybe if you are super creative and entrepreneurial, you’ve got some type of cash-producing asset or a number of cash-producing assets, you stitch those two together. Once all of that money is kind of churning and working on your behalf, you all of a sudden don’t really have to work because you can safely withdraw around 4% of that on an annual basis and your money will continue to earn interest on your behalf.

[00:15:25]
Amanda Greene: I’ve never considered approaching money that way.

[00:15:28]
Julien Saunders: I mean, I just want people to recognize that it’s an option, that it is a way of life and a path that they can subscribe to as opposed to saving 10 to 15% over a longer period of time. And then what unfortunately happens is we meet that middle road, that middle of your life and that middle of your career when life starts to really happen and you get this combination of illness or children, maybe it’s multiple children, maybe it’s a layoff, and all of those things combined completely derail your plan because you were banking on being able to safely save 10 to 15%. You were banking on earning just as much income for the foreseeable future. And those little hiccups tend to completely derail people’s plans. And, so, we’re just asking them to think about it like you don’t always have to live in a state of fear, find a comfortable kind of nook financially. And the more you do that over time and you continue to invest that money when something happens in your life, you can absorb it, and it does not derail you or throw off your marriage or your ability to be the kind of parent you want to be, or even just give you the freedom to just explore a hobby that you have not been able to explore for the last 10, 15 years. And I think that’s what most people are looking for.

[00:16:36]
Amanda Greene: That’s an interesting way to look at it. One of our most popular episodes this season was about budgeting. If anyone wants to go back, there’s some great information in that one, and it really helps to wrap your head around a lot of what we’re talking about today. I can’t help but think that having more money makes it easier to save more money. So really, who is the FIRE movement for?

[00:16:57]
Kiersten Saunders: We’ve gotten that question before. It’s for anybody who wants to have a level of agency and control over the decisions that guide their lives, and that could be in a small way or in a big way. We wanted the ability to decide not to have to go into an office Monday through Friday for the years of our son’s life that really matter. Now, that might mean that we go back when he’s 25. It might mean that we never go back, but we wanted the option to be able to take this time and focus on what’s important to us. And I think for everybody, it’s really about answering the question of who you are and what you want, and then you can back into a financial plan that supports that.

[00:17:37]
Amanda Greene: So FIRE, financial independence, retire early. I really do like the sound of that. Let’s bring Pamela back for some final thoughts. I’m curious, is it ever too late to start preparing for retirement?

[00:17:53]
Pamela Capalad: It is absolutely never too late to start. I have worked with clients in their twenties. I’ve worked with clients in their sixties, and I think that the thing to keep in mind is that people are going to make you feel like you’re behind always when it comes to money, always when it comes to what you have in the bank. The thing to remember is you do have agency, and you do have choice in this process, no matter what age you are, no matter how old you are. And if you’re 60, and you’re looking at retirement, you’re like, “Oh my gosh, how am I going to do this?” Start with the habits, start with the one step at a time. You still start there because once you take that first step and then you take the 100th step and then you take the 500th step, it all starts to feel more clear.

[00:18:35]
Amanda Greene: That’s true. You just have to start taking the steps. Pamela, we like to end each episode with a little quiz. Are you ready?

[00:18:42]
Pamela Capalad: I think so. Let’s do it.

[00:18:43]
Amanda Greene: What’s the No. 1 mistake you see people make when it comes to retirement?

[00:18:47]
Pamela Capalad: Not looking. They don’t know how to log in. They don’t look at their statements. They just don’t know what’s going on.

[00:18:51]
Amanda Greene: What’s the best way to bring young people or our children into this?

[00:18:56]
Pamela Capalad: I love this question because I have a 4-year-old, and I think the best way to bring a young person into this is to have money conversations in front of them. You don’t even have to be speaking directly to them, but money conversations don’t have to happen behind closed doors. You can have difficult conversations in front of your kid. You can feel stressed about money and have them watch how you handle it and how you process it, so money doesn’t feel like such a shock to their system when they’re in their teens or when they’re in college and things like that. That’s what we’re doing for our kid, whether or not we’re even explaining everything, just him knowing that there is no taboo around this topic is huge.

[00:19:34]
Amanda Greene: Yes, I love that advice. And Pamela, what’s your No. 1 wish for retirement?

[00:19:40]
Pamela Capalad: My No. 1 wish for retirement is that my son doesn’t have to help me in retirement.

[00:19:46]
Amanda Greene: Amazing. Thank you so much for coming on today. You have given us a lot to think about and explained things in a way that made it really digestible, and I really appreciate that.

[00:19:56]
Pamela Capalad: Oh, thank you so much for having me.

[00:19:59]
Amanda Greene: And thanks again to Kiersten and Julien Saunders of Rich and Regular. I guess the thing to remember is you’ve got options. Start somewhere, because it’s never too late, and then, really work at it. Pay attention to your money and see what you’re comfortable putting away. It might be more than you think. Today’s guests aren’t giving financial advice, but they are giving us a lot to think about. The cafe in Paris might have to wait for now, but maybe someday I can enjoy an espresso from the comfort of my own home. So that’s a start. And, yesterday, I upped the amount that I contribute to my 401(k). I’m nowhere near 40% of my income, but I started the habit, which is half the battle, right?

You’ve been listening to Merging into Life where we navigate life’s milestones one episode at a time. Brought to you by AAA Northeast with assistance from JAR Audio. I’m your host, Amanda Greene.

If you’ve got a second, and you like what you hear, please leave a review. It helps other people find the show. If you’ve learned something that stuck with you, or if you want to suggest a topic, get in touch at podcast@AAANortheast.com.

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are not necessarily the views of AAA Northeast, AAA, and or its affiliates.

---

RESOURCES

AAA Financial Services

Merging Into Life: Budgeting 101

Money Mistakes to Avoid in Retirement

Retirement Withdrawal Strategies to Think About

Pamela Capalad: Get Shameless

Julien & Kiersten Saunders: Rich & Regular

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Want to Learn More? Drop Us a Note

*The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are not necessarily the views of AAA Northeast, AAA and/or its affiliates.

---

IN THIS EPISODE

Once you’ve left the nest and tasted independence, you don’t want to look back, just keep flying forward. That’s why moving back home with parents is not an easy decision for many young adults taking that leap, some even with their own families in tow.

Life happens, and when the door is open with love and support, moving back home isn’t the worst thing you could do. It’s not moving backward; it’s simply a stop on the way to getting to where you want to be.

There are advantages to living with parents as an adult — namely saving money — but, of course, there are also challenges.

In this episode, we talk to Paige Mariah, a successful, vibrant, thirtysomething who returned to the U.S. from England and moved back in with her parents. She’s got firsthand tips on how to make the most of your time at home. We also have Francesca Canzoneri from The Therapy Institute who helps get you in the right mindset when it comes to boundaries.

---

KEY TAKEAWAYS

[3:14] – Paige Mariah breaks down what’s it like to live at home in your 30s.
[5:59] – How to manage negative emotions when moving back home.
[8:08] – How to avoid falling back into a younger child-parent relationship.
[12:07] – The benefits of moving back home.

---

TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:01]
Amanda Greene: When I left home, it was to go to college. I was just ready to be independent. But then finding apartments, paying rent, buying household essentials, it was hard. But knowing my mom was there if I really needed her was huge. The safety net of knowing I could move back home if I had to was really comforting at the time. Life is expensive and the job market can be tough. Moving back home crossed my mind many times. I didn’t ever end up doing it, but lots of people are finding they have to or even want to. Welcome to Merging Into Life where we navigate life’s milestones one episode at a time. Brought to you by AAA Northeast. I’m your host, Amanda Greene. Today we’re going to talk about moving back in with your parents, the homey perks, the discomforts of home, and everything in between, and why that experience is a little more common than you might think. Take Paige Mariah, for example.

[00:01:02]
Paige Mariah: We’re going to be talking about me moving back home with my parents.

[00:01:05]
Amanda Greene: She was living her best life abroad in London, but after five years she decided to move back home with her parents in the U. S at 31. And trust me, as she says, it wasn’t as simple as just moving back in.

[00:01:19]
Paige Mariah: Man, life has changed a lot over the last year.

[00:01:22]
Amanda Greene: Paige had gone to London to pursue a master’s degree, and the city stole her heart. After she finished school, she stayed.

[00:01:30]
Paige Mariah: So I was able to get an entrepreneurial visa and that allowed me to stay a lot longer than planned. I was a full-time digital content creator. So I was vlogging my experiences abroad. I was the American in London on YouTube, and it was fun for a really long time, and I was able to visit 40 countries while I was out there.

READ MORE

[00:01:51]
Amanda Greene: Sounds like a dream, right? Traveling, living abroad, building a career, but eventually the call of home grew stronger.

[00:01:59]
Paige Mariah: Honestly, I am very, very close to my parents and my younger brother, and my family’s in the U. S and my parents are getting older. I just felt like it was time to return back.

[00:02:11]
Amanda Greene: Leaving London wasn’t an easy decision, especially since her next stop was moving back in with her parents. It was an emotional roller coaster.

[00:02:20]
Paige Mariah: Oh my goodness, I had such a range of emotions. I cried so much that last year that I was there. Not a lot of people that I knew around me were doing that at 31. So yeah, I had a lot of weird feelings around it. I didn’t really know how much I wanted to talk about it online. But then I also decided that this is a super relatable subject that people don’t talk about enough and maybe it won’t be so taboo if I do speak about it.

[00:02:50]
Amanda Greene: Yeah, the idea of taboo really hits home.

[00:02:53]
Paige Mariah: Yes.

[00:02:54]
Amanda Greene: I think so many people struggle with the idea of moving back in with parents in adulthood. It can feel like a step backwards. But when you really stop to think about it, isn’t it a reflection of the realities of adulthood? I love how Paige acknowledges that. Now Paige is home. So what’s it really like to live with your parents when you’re in your thirties?

[00:03:15]
Paige Mariah: Oh my gosh, they were overjoyed. They were so excited for me to come back. No, it’s so funny. My dad was so upset at me whenever I would even bring up moving out when I was there. He was like, “No, you should just stay a few years. There’s no need to rush.” They really have enjoyed me being in the house with them again. I hadn’t been that close to them in years. I would see them once or twice a year, so they were really, really excited to just have us all be together in one house again. So at the end of the day, this is my parents’ house. They have a certain way of doing things. They have a certain way of how they like things to be done. My mom doesn’t like anything to be left on her kitchen counter. If I do that, it’s like she’s fussing at me and I’m like, “Ugh.” I would say it was a bit challenging, especially moving in in my thirties because I feel like after I hit my 30th birthday, I just had this shift in me where I just really was craving my own space. I think I just had to keep reminding myself I had a goal and this time I knew that this is going to give me the opportunity to save, save, save and I’m going to set myself up to live alone and accomplish that dream that I’ve had for a while to just wake up to complete silence.

[00:04:35]
Amanda Greene: Moving back in with her parents, Paige had a clear goal, find a new job, then save up to find a place of her own. Her determination to do what needed to be done is admirable, and for many people, relatable.

[00:04:48]
Francesca Canzoneri: During the Great Depression, 48% of adults moved back in with their parents, so it’s about the same as it was then.

[00:04:55]
Amanda Greene: This is Francesca Canzoneri, a licensed associate counselor who specializes in family dynamics. Francesca is here to help us understand how to best navigate our feelings when moving back home. She says there are a lot of reasons we have to do this, but the most common…

[00:05:10]
Francesca Canzoneri: I’d say financial is probably the biggest reason.

[00:05:13]
Amanda Greene: I can see how deciding to go back home as an adult could come with a range of emotions. What are you seeing?

[00:05:21]
Francesca Canzoneri: Yeah. The emotions can be extremely mixed because obviously if we’re moving back home with our parents, we are a little bit comfortable there, especially if that’s the house that we grew up in. So part of us can be feeling nostalgic, maybe we’re feeling a little relieved knowing that financial burden is not as heavy as if we were on our own, but then there’s also an influx of some negative emotions. So we might be anxious, we might feel shame or grief or guilt. We might feel like we’re lacking independence, frustrated. I mean, there’s so many different emotions and they’re kind of all intertwined, so it’s really difficult to navigate them all at the same time.

[00:05:57]
Amanda Greene: What should we tell ourselves when that happens?

[00:05:59]
Francesca Canzoneri: I always encourage my clients to, first and foremost, just mindfulness. Take deep breaths, let’s stay in the present moment because we have the tendency to kind of worry a lot about the past, worry about the future, maybe we compare ourselves to other people and we kind of get down why am I not where I want to be? And it’s so hard, especially with social media, so you might see where your friends are maybe getting married or advancing in their career or buying a house or whatever it is, and you think about where you are and you compare and it’s natural, especially since it’s so easy to see where other people are. I always encourage my clients to tell themselves or remind themselves that this is an important part of their chapter, so this is what’s going to help them get back to where they want to be. It’s essential. If they don’t have this chapter, then it’s going to be really difficult for them to get where they want to be. So as much as this can be a conflicting chapter, it could be causing an influx of contradicting emotions, it’s imperative and it’s really actually going to set them up for success for where they want to go.

[00:06:57]
Amanda Greene: That is a really great line to remind yourself of, that this is an important part of my chapter, this is an important part of my life, this chapter is necessary. I mean, I feel like even no matter what you’re going through in life, that is a good thing to remind yourself of because you’re not going to get where you want to go until you get through this current thing.

[00:07:16]
Francesca Canzoneri: I tell them all the time, the best way out of a difficult situation is through because if we swoop it under the rug and pretend it’s not there, it’s still there. And if we just try to avoid it and go over it, it’s still there. So there’s different ways to deal with uncomfortable emotions. Stuffing is when you feel something you don’t want to feel and shoving it down and pretending it’s not there. And it’s a temporary fix because we’re ignoring it, we don’t feel it, we stuff it down, but the problem with that is eventually that builds up.

[00:07:44]
Amanda Greene: My mom actually has a shirt that says, “Feel your feelings,” And when she wears it, she points it out to everyone. She’s like, “Feel your feelings.” I bet when people do end up going home, it would be easy to revert into some childish ways.

[00:08:00]
Francesca Canzoneri: Yes.

[00:08:01]
Amanda Greene: Maybe feel more like your child-like self just from being maybe back in the home you grew up in. How do we try to not do that?

[00:08:08]
Francesca Canzoneri: That’s a really good question, and I think this really goes both ways. Just as you don’t want to be treated like a child and have that feeling of you’re a child again in that house, we have to also respect our parents in a way that that’s their house and they’re not just our parents. So it’s kind of like establishing this adult to adult relationship. I think the toughest part of when adults move back in with their parents is that line is blurred, right? We are so used to having the power differential of the parents and then the child. When we move back in as an adult, we need to establish how are we going to change this dynamic? Because yes, it is your house and I am your child, but we are all adults living under the same roof now. So we want to respect that that’s our parents’ house, it’s not our house, and to try to stray away from going back into our childhood ways. I mean, there’s a few different things we could do. If it’s possible, ask our parents, can we change our childhood room around? Can we make it more adult-like? Can we get new furniture, new decor, paint it, whatever, just so it doesn’t look so much like a childhood bedroom? We could take on more responsibility in the household. Don’t expect mom and dad or whoever you’re living with as a family member to do it all. Take on some of that responsibility. Food shop, clean the house, wash the cars, run the errands. That will kind of create less of a power differential and kind of make it more equal and neutralized.

[00:09:31]
Amanda Greene: I think something that a lot of people struggle with are boundaries.

[00:09:35]
Francesca Canzoneri: Yes.

[00:09:35]
Amanda Greene: And this is an instance where they’re really going to come into play. So how do we set boundaries with our family? What are some of the best practices in this circumstance?

[00:09:45]
Francesca Canzoneri: Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries. They are something we always strive for and they’re really hard. And I think the reason that they can be hard is especially for people who fear tension and don’t want to cause any rifts or any issues in the relationship or damage the relationship and try to keep a more peaceful environment, which works to an extent. If you’re continuously worrying about the other person and how they feel. It’s peaceful, but then eventually you’re kind of swallowing a lot, so that’s why boundaries are important. So I think first and foremost, just understanding ‘What are my boundaries?’

[00:10:16]
Amanda Greene: I think a lot of us are still learning even how to assert boundaries and what they even are and what they should mean in your relationships. So that I think would be a really tricky one. Is there a way to make sure that you don’t overstay your welcome?

[00:10:33]
Francesca Canzoneri: I typically always go back to communication. I think it’s really important to check in, how are we feeling? Is there anything you need me to do more of or less of? Are we comfortable? Are there any changes that either of us can make to make this more comfortable?

[00:10:47]
Amanda Greene: You kind of touched on the independence of someone who had previously moved out and is now moving back in, and as adults, most of us are used to our independence. What happens if we want to stay out late but our family is worried when they know we’re not in our bed? What do we do there?

[00:11:05]
Francesca Canzoneri: That’s a tricky one. I think the first thing to keep in mind is your family is your family, so it doesn’t matter how old you are, they’re always going to worry about you. And now if you are living in their environment, they feel a little bit more responsible for you to check in, make sure you’re okay. So accepting that and understanding it’s coming from a good place I think is a really important piece. And then also, going back to that assertive communication and those boundaries, where can we come to a compromise? I appreciate that you care about me, I appreciate that you want me to be safe, I appreciate that you want to make sure I’m okay, I appreciate that you care. And at the same time, it makes me feel anxious when you worry too much or call me throughout the night or whatever it is. So just being honest with how you’re feeling and coming to a compromise of, okay, if I tell you I’m going out with my friends, I will be home by this time. If I’m a little bit late, I’ll reach out.

[00:12:01]
Amanda Greene: We’ve touched on a lot of the uncomfy parts of this and how to work through it, but what are some of the benefits of living with your parents?

[00:12:08]
Francesca Canzoneri: Yeah, absolutely. I think just being reminded that you have such good support because I think sometimes we could take that for granted sometimes. Not everybody always has that so showing that gratitude and having that comfort so easily accessible by moving back in is nice. Just knowing that you could take so much pressure off of yourself, that you have to figure it out right now, right?

[00:12:29]
Amanda Greene: Yeah. A little breather.

[00:12:30]
Francesca Canzoneri: Yes, absolutely. I could take a deep breath, I could talk more kindly to myself, I can take this pressure off and not feel so anxious and I can just be stable in this moment and not worry so much about the next thing.

[00:12:44]
Amanda Greene: A safe place to regroup.

[00:12:46]
Francesca Canzoneri: Absolutely. Yes, for sure.

[00:12:48]
Amanda Greene: What about from the parent’s perspective? Any additional benefits for them?

[00:12:52]
Francesca Canzoneri: Yeah, I mean a lot of parents experience that empty nest syndrome when their kids move out, go away to college, or maybe they get married or they move out and get their first place for the first time or whatever, and that could be really difficult for them. So sometimes I think having them back in the home can kind of make them feel a little bit more fulfilled again, it could feel like a little bit more… I don’t want to say their purpose because we don’t only have one purpose in life, but if you’re a parent, that is a big piece of your identity and a big majority of what kind of helped you make choices in your life is by being a parent. So for people who really struggle with the empty nest syndrome, it kind of can bring back that relief of, “Ah, they still need me. I am still an important piece of their book,”Right? ” I am still an important character and I love that we have this relationship where they can still rely on me and maybe they can help me.”

[00:13:44]
Amanda Greene: You are a joy. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing all of your insight and talking about how to handle all of the emotions that come with moving back in with your parents as an adult.

[00:13:54]
Francesca Canzoneri: My pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.

[00:13:56]
Amanda Greene: Thank you so much for being here. Moving back home as an adult is never an easy decision, but for Paige, it’s turned out to be a transformative experience. As we’ve heard, living with family as an adult can bring up so many emotions, from financial stress to newfound independence and everything in between. But one thing that often gets overlooked is the impact it can have on relationships. As Francesca told us, moving back home can give us that unexpected opportunity to reconnect, deepen our bonds and create new memories. And as Paige shared with us earlier, those connections can be life-changing.

[00:14:34]
Paige Mariah: The best part about being back with my parents, just being able to be with them every single day. I really, really missed them, and I don’t think I even realized how much I missed them until I was able to move back in and see them all the time and just creating new memories with them. We’ve been traveling together, just even going for a walk with my mom in the park, that was a thing that we did a lot when I moved back, so they were really happy. And one thing about my parents, they have always been so supportive and they knew that they would be able to help me and give me this gift of living rent-free for a little while, and they would do that as many times as they could. They just want to help me get ahead always, so I’m so grateful for them.

[00:15:16]
Amanda Greene: I think we can all agree, family matters, and whether they’re a short drive away or under the same roof, any opportunity to connect is valuable.

[00:15:24]
Paige Mariah: I’m still a thirty-minute drive away. If they called me, I would be there in a heartbeat, whatever they need.

[00:15:29]
Amanda Greene: Speaking of family and getting to know each other a little better, let’s wrap things up with a round of rapid-fire questions. First one, buying your own food or eating what your parents eat.

[00:15:40]
Paige Mariah: Buying my own food, a hundred percent.

[00:15:42]
Amanda Greene: Paying rent or enjoying the free ride.

[00:15:45]
Paige Mariah: Oh my goodness. I don’t think anyone should ever choose to pay rent, but for now, at this point in my life, paying rent because it is worth every penny to have this peace and quiet.

[00:15:59]
Amanda Greene: What about do your own laundry or let your parents do it?

[00:16:03]
Paige Mariah: Let my parents take care of it. I miss that the most.

[00:16:06]
Amanda Greene: Always letting them know where you are or staying private.

[00:16:09]
Paige Mariah: Keeping my life totally private. My parents still have my location so they can have an idea, but they don’t need to know everything.

[00:16:16]
Amanda Greene: How about having friends over or keeping your social life outside the home?

[00:16:21]
Paige Mariah: Having friends over. Like, I’m so excited to host. I’ve always wanted to do that, so looking forward to my housewarming.

[00:16:27]
Amanda Greene: How about locking yourself away in a bedroom like a teen or hanging out in common areas with your parents?

[00:16:33]
Paige Mariah: A little bit of both. It depends on the mood that I’m in, but I think I really did enjoy hanging out in the common areas with my parents and just talking to them.

[00:16:42]
Amanda Greene: And give it a time limit or stay forever.

[00:16:46]
Paige Mariah: I would say for your own sanity, give yourself a time limit.

[00:16:48]
Amanda Greene: Amazing. Thank you so much for coming on today, Paige.

[00:16:50]
Paige Mariah: Thank you so much.

[00:16:53]
Amanda Greene: So this is something people are doing, moving back in with their parents, some with their own families. I get it. It would be nice to save a little money, have more people around to help out with household chores, even have my mom do my laundry, but I think we’ll stay put for now.

You’ve been listening to Merging Into Life, where we navigate life’s milestones one episode at a time. Brought to you by AAA Northeast with assistance from JAR Audio. I’m your host, Amanda Greene.

If you’re learning as much as I am, follow us wherever you get your podcasts and leave a review. We would love to know what you think. Email us at podcast@aaanortheast.com.

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are not necessarily the views of AAA Northeast, AAA and or its affiliates.

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RESOURCES

Merging Into Life

The Therapy Institute

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*The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are not necessarily the views of AAA Northeast, AAA and/or its affiliates.

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IN THIS EPISODE

Cruises are a big deal. The newest megaships are basically floating resorts, offering everything from water parks to skating rinks. If you prefer a more intimate, laidback experience, there are ships for your style, too. With so many options, it’s a vacation from the moment you step on board.

Before setting sail on your first cruise, there’s a lot to figure out. First, of course, is how to choose a cruise that’s best for you. Then, there’s your packing strategy, what’s worth splurging on and which onshore excursions to try. You may also have common first-time cruiser concerns like: What if I get motion sickness? And, what if you miss the boat?

We’ve got you covered. Listen in as we hear from Dana Hammond, travel journalist and cruise lover, who’s been on over 100 cruises, and Ilana Schattauer from the blog Life Well Cruised, a once-skeptic turned cruise superfan. They share their cruise tips, debunk cruise myths and talk about some of the perks aboard the best cruise ships.

Book a cruise with AAA.

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KEY TAKEAWAYS

[2:16] – Keys to a smooth embarkation day
[8:59] – Top destinations from a cruise aficianado
[13:27] – Tips for first-time cruisers

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TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:01]
Amanda Greene: Routine is great. It keeps me focused and on top of things. Here’s how my day goes. I wake up at 7: 00, make my coffee, get the kids out the door, and then it’s meetings, emails, repeat. But even the best routine starts to wear on you after a while. Sometimes what you need to stay productive and at your best is to break that routine. An ocean breeze, looking off into the horizon. What’s that? A breaching whale? Yes, please. I think it’s time for a cruise. Welcome to Merging into Life, where we navigate life’s milestones one episode at a time, brought to you by AAA Northeast. I’m your host, Amanda Greene.

Today, we’re going to talk about taking your first cruise. Who doesn’t love a nice vacation? I love the excitement of a theme park. There’s never a dull moment. Traveling abroad comes with new cultures, there’s so much to see and eat. But sometimes I just want to unplug. And for me that means no cooking, no cleaning and no fighting traffic. I just need to lay back and unwind. So cruising really speaks to me and in order to find out more, I turned to Ilana Schattauer.

[00:01:15]
Ilana Schattauer: It’s funny, about 20 years ago, my husband and I decided to do a cruise for our 10th anniversary, and truthfully, I thought it would be one and done. We won’t hate it, we’ll probably like it, but we fell in love with it.

[00:01:29]
Amanda Greene: She shares tips and cruise hacks under her banner, Life Well Cruised.

[00:01:33]
Ilana Schattauer: We fell in love with it the moment that the ship sailed away from the shore. Throughout the rest of the cruise, we had such a good time, felt a little bit spoiled and pampered, which was nice. So after that, within a year, we brought our two young children with us and then they were raised on cruising.

[00:01:50]
Amanda Greene: You said that even from the moment that you set sail, you just fell in love with it. What was it about that?

[00:01:56]
Ilana Schattauer: I think there might be something to the ocean and the water, but physically we felt de-stressed the moment that the ship sailed away. It might’ve been a little bit of work things, the kids, all of the day-to-day things and we really felt like, wow, we were on vacation. And then looking forward to a sense of adventure ahead.

READ MORE

[00:02:14]
Amanda Greene: Can you give us some of your tips for having a smooth embarkation day?

[00:02:18]
Ilana Schattauer: So I do always like to tell people, make sure that you fly in one day early. And especially when it’s in the wintertime and perhaps somebody’s coming from the northeast or somewhere where weather can affect that flight, you do need at least two hours to spare before the sail away time, which is not obvious, but that is actually a rule for the cruise lines.

And another thing is don’t show up hungry. So when you get to the cruise terminal, it can take a little bit of time before you board your cruise ship and sometimes there can be a delay. So you don’t want to wake up in the morning, not have breakfast and show up starving. At least have a breakfast, some people even bring a little snack with them just in case. And this way you can ease when you get onto the cruise ship, do everything you need to do and then take your time before having your lunch.

[00:03:07]
Amanda Greene: Because we don’t want to be hangry as we’re getting on a cruise to have an amazing vacation.

[00:03:11]
Ilana Schattauer: You are right. It is no fun to be hangry or to be cruising with other people that are hangry.

[00:03:15]
Amanda Greene: No. What about when it comes to packing and what you should have for that first day versus once you’re settled into your room?

[00:03:25]
Ilana Schattauer: So you want to arrive at your cruise port with a cruise carry-on bag and basically that’s going to be the things that you need for the first few hours of your cruise before your luggage arrives. So if you are taking checked baggage, which you can do, there are going to be porters that are outside of the cruise terminal and they’re going to take your luggage and then it is going to be tagged and it’s going to be delivered to your cabin. But it can take a few hours, so we’ve boarded a cruise ship, let’s say around 12:00 noon, and we’ve got our luggage maybe around 3:00, 4:00, even sometimes 5:00PM.

So you want to have things to enjoy the day. So that’s going to be things like bathing suits maybe because the pools, all the activities, they are open right away. But other important things that you want to have is make sure that you have your boarding documentation, your identification. So oftentimes, that’s going to be a passport for a lot of people. Otherwise, always verify with a cruise line any other documentation or ID that could be required. But as well, you want to make sure you have your valuables with you. And even something as simple as you may want to freshen up when you get on the cruise ship, you may want to freshen up your makeup or deodorant or brush your teeth. So just really thinking about what are the things that you will need for those first few hours until your luggage arrives.

[00:04:41]
Amanda Greene: What about the need to be flexible on a cruise? Because as enjoyable as it’s going to be, things are going to maybe not always go according to plan.

[00:04:50]
Ilana Schattauer: Yes. So just like everything in life, we have to be flexible, but one thing in particular about cruises is itinerary. So a cruise ship, of course, is moving through the ocean and it’s a great vacation because you can go to several different destinations. But one thing I would caution people about is being flexible with the idea that your itinerary may change.

Now, usually itineraries don’t change, but I’ll give you an example. We were on a cruise and it was in the Caribbean right at the beginning of when Hurricane Helen was going to be passing through. So our cruise wasn’t affected, but what happened was when we got onto the cruise ship, we had a letter in our cabin stating that three of our cruise ports would be changing, and that was because the captain had made a decision to actually reroute the ship. We were supposed to be going, for instance, to Cozumel, Mexico. So there was the potential of the storm being in that area at the time, it was before it had arrived. So to just avoid any of those problems, we headed instead to Dominican Republic, which was really nice.

[00:05:53]
Amanda Greene: Thanks, Ilana, for sharing your love of cruising with us. I’m pretty sure I’d be okay with a surprise trip to the Dominican Republic.

All right, make sure you leave plenty of time. You don’t want to miss the boat. Don’t show up hungry, and pack a carry-on so you can start enjoying all the things your ship has to offer immediately.

[00:06:12]
Dana Hammond: We’re talking roller coasters on the top decks of these big ships, ice skating rinks tucked in their bellies, planetariums, beautifully curated lectures, so there’s something for everybody to do.

[00:06:23]
Amanda Greene: This is Dana Hammond. She’s a travel writer whose work has appeared in major news publications and AAA magazines throughout the years. Dana loves cruises.

[00:06:33]
Dana Hammond: It’s almost like magic. You go to sleep in one place, you wake up in a new place. I often say it’s kind of like Christmas morning for travelers every day on a cruise because you’re unwrapping a new destination.

[00:06:44]
Amanda Greene: That is so beautiful. You’re really romanticizing cruising, and it sounds so magical. I’ve seen cruises that are like, I don’t know, 10 to 14 days long and that seems like a really long time.

[00:06:57]
Dana Hammond: It is.

[00:06:57]
Amanda Greene: Especially for someone who has never done a cruise before. So if someone’s never been on a cruise before, they probably shouldn’t be looking at one of those two-week long cruises, right?

[00:07:07]
Dana Hammond: For your first cruise, five to seven days is probably the perfect time. It gives you an opportunity to get a lay of the ship and to experience all the onboard attractions. I guarantee even with seven days on most ships, you’re going to have a conversation with someone in the elevator who’s telling you their most amazing thing they did on the cruise and you’re like, “Oh, we didn’t even get to that.” And then you share yours with them and they’re like, “We didn’t get to that,” because there’s just so much to do.

[00:07:30]
Amanda Greene: I know that there’s different kinds of cruises and every ship kind of offers different things and different cruise lines offer different things. Who are cruises meant for?

[00:07:39]
Dana Hammond: There’s a short answer to that. It’s everybody. You can find any price point for cruises. You can find an active cruise, you can find a cruise that’s more cerebral. There are accommodations for solo passengers now. And families are very welcome on cruise ships. Some of the kids clubs that you’ll find are amazing. They’re age-specific, supervised programs. They’re decked out with the latest tech gadgetry, special clubs for teens. And believe me, the teens clubs, they do what we’re doing. They can learn how to podcast. They’ll cut videos, learn a movie. There’s gaming and sporting tournaments, dances with mocktails. I sometimes think the teens, by the end of a cruise, have the run of the ship because they have a certain agency of their own, so they learn every last space and they know the layout by the time you get off better than half the passengers.

[00:08:27]
Amanda Greene: I’ve heard stories even of teenagers finding their lifelong best friend on a cruise because it is just a special kind of bonding that happens.

[00:08:35]
Dana Hammond: For adults and kids too. Some cruises are almost like a camp for adults because you just have this quick bonding experience over the shared thing that you’re engaging in.

[00:08:43]
Amanda Greene: So you were saying earlier that one of the special things about cruising is going to sleep in this floating hotel.

[00:08:49]
Dana Hammond: That’s right.

[00:08:49]
Amanda Greene: And then waking up in a destination. Do you have any destinations that you recommend that are really special to you?

[00:08:57]
Dana Hammond: Absolutely. You can go anywhere, particularly from a home port in the Northeast where we are, you can head north to New England, south to Bermuda, Europe, and the Caribbean. And on the other side of the country, Alaska is easy to get to Hawaii. I’ve been to Antarctica, which was amazing.

But if I were going to recommend the first time cruiser, I would say head to the Caribbean. It’s very easy to get there. All of the ships are there. It’s open year round. It’s beautiful. There are arid islands like Aruba and lush ones like Jamaica. So the Caribbean provides an easy, convenient year-round option. And also, that’s where the cruise line private islands live and those port calls are among the most raved about on all the itineraries.

[00:09:41]
Amanda Greene: Why do you think so?

[00:09:42]
Dana Hammond: I think because it dovetails nicely with what cruising does, delivering that hassle-free approach. You have a carefree beach day, the cruise line takes care of everything. They’re going to give you your towel, the beach chairs are there, the umbrellas. They provide a beach barbecue and some snack shacks all included, so it’s really lovely. And they’re also tricked out in a style that is reminiscent of the various cruise lines, so it’s really an extension of that experience. But you can leave your wallet on the ship. You don’t have to worry about anything.

[00:10:12]
Amanda Greene: Having a private island be one of the ports sounds like kind of getting the best of both worlds on a vacation because on a cruise, you probably don’t spend a lot of time at the beach. But if you are stopping for a day on one of the private islands, you have the chance to swim in the ocean and get that beach experience while also being on a cruise.

[00:10:30]
Dana Hammond: Absolutely. Sometimes I’ve found that you want to just go, go, go with the ports, even in the Caribbean and you’re not taking that time for a beach experience. Here, it’s built in, the day is devoted to that. And as I said, you have all the amenities, you don’t have to think twice about anything. And let’s say you forgot your suntan lotion, run back to the ship and get it. It’s just so easy.

[00:10:52]
Amanda Greene: I feel like there are so many options when it comes to cruising. Even if you just do a quick search, there’s just so many different lines, so many different ships. How do you find the best ship for you? How do you narrow down that search?

[00:11:07]
Dana Hammond: I always look at the ship kind of as an extra travel companion and you want to have a personality that jives with the people you’re traveling with. So you do a little research, get online. The cruise line websites are true to character. They show the activities that they want to highlight, the people that are doing them, families or maybe a more mature crew line is going to be represented in that way.

You can join forums where you can actually speak with or communicate with people who have been on these ships that you’re looking into going on. You can ask them pointed questions, “Hey, Grandpa likes to golf every day, and I heard there’s a golf simulator on this or a mini golf course. Were they crowded? Were they nice? Do you think he’d be happy?” So you can really get a lot of information from that. And an agent is also very good, have to give a plug to AAA. A knowledgeable cruise agent is invaluable.

[00:11:55]
Amanda Greene: And I know you can even book on your own at AAA.com/Cruises. There is so much information there, including deck plans. You can really get a feel for the ship right on the website. Of course, ships come in different sizes. How do the big ones and the small ones compare?

[00:12:1]2
Dana Hammond: So the big ships are kind of jacks of all trades and the smaller ships tend to be a little more luxurious, a personalized experience. I would say though, if you’re a first time cruiser and you’re really kind of battling which direction you want to go, that the larger ships do tend to be the ones that have something for everybody to do. You really can’t go wrong. At any given time, someone might be zip lining across the top of the ship while somebody else is attending an art auction or a wine lecture, so you’ll find your place.

[00:12:42]
Amanda Greene: How many people would be on a large ship versus a small ship?

[00:12:45]
Dana Hammond: Get ready to have your mind blown, at least I always feel like it’s a mind-blowing thing, but the largest cruise ship sailing right now can accommodate more than 7, 000 passengers.

[00:12:55]
Amanda Greene: Wow.

[00:12:56]
Dana Hammond: I think it’s 7, 600 to be exact. And this particular cruise line breaks their ship up into neighborhoods. And then the smaller ships, the most luxurious ships tend to be, of course you pay a little bit of a higher price point for them, but you could have as little as 400 passengers on the ship.

[00:13:13]
Amanda Greene: Really is like a floating city, which is just so neat.

[00:13:16]
Dana Hammond: Yes, it is. It is.

[00:13:20]
Amanda Greene: Do you have any key tips that you share for first time cruisers?

[00:13:25]
Dana Hammond: In particular, getting on the cruise first time, the cruise line apps are incredible. You want to download that cruise line app. It’s kind of like having a pocket sized cruise director with you at all the times. It can give you the information on when venues are open, what kind of activities are going on. You can make reservations. Some of them even allow you to turn on your cabin lights, communicate with other people. There’s information on the ship layout, there’s information on the destinations. It’s anything you want, you can turn to it. So I would say for sure, do that.

And another thing is make some reservations in advance before you get on the ship, particularly shore excursions, they can sell out and you don’t want to miss something that you want to do. Also, specialty dining, it’s an extra charge for this, but if you have a birthday or maybe an anniversary and you’re locked into a certain date, you’d want to make that reservation in advance too. You could even reserve things like spa time during a sea day when spa is humming, and that way you don’t miss out if you’re locked into a certain date.

[00:14:24]
Amanda Greene: I feel like I see a lot of hacks on Instagram about packing.

[00:14:28]
Dana Hammond: Well, my first rule is pack light or likely go home regretting it because cruising has become so much more casual over the years. And while it’s a great opportunity to turn yourself out in a fabulous dress and have a formal night, you definitely do not have to pack a ball gown and a tuxedo. It’s really much more casual than that nowadays.

Also, one of my cabin hacks is that ships are made of metal. You forget that because they’re so beautifully decorated interiorly. But if you buy just a couple of magnetic hooks, they can go a long way, particularly because in the bathrooms, let’s just say they’re economical in space, so counter space can be a bit limited. You throw some of those magnets up and you invest in a fold down toiletry package, you can just hook that up there and it saves space. If you’ve got kids traveling with you, hang their bathing suits on a few of them.

[00:15:19]
Amanda Greene: What’s included in most cruises and what’s extra?

[00:15:23]
Dana Hammond: It’s a good question because you don’t want to be disappointed. A lot of the things are included, the shipboard activities, your dining. But there are up-sales for all of this. It really depends on the line too, because when we’re talking about the bigger ships that have that resort feel or even your premium cruise lines, they have less of the things included. But when we’re talking about that 400 passenger ship, you can bet that almost every single thing is included. Sometimes even your airfare and your transportation to the ship, your shore excursions, alcohol, all of that.

But when you’re looking about things that are not included, the likely extras are gratuities. I don’t think that one surprises people too much. There are specialty dining, that’s going to be an upcharge. Your Wi-Fi is going to cost you extra and your alcohol and some beverages. That last part can throw people. Like a specialty coffee, you would pay extra for a lot of times, but not regular coffee or tea. And while the cruise line will provide things for you to drink, like maybe iced tea and lemonade and juice or variety of that, but they won’t necessarily provide soda. Some do, but not all of them do. So you have to be prepared for those extras that might come along.

[00:16:29]
Amanda Greene: So your food other than specialty dining would be included. The nightly entertainment, the shows that you’ll often find on the ships are included.

[00:16:38]
Dana Hammond: Yes.

[00:16:39]
Amanda Greene: But things like the spa for example, that’s going to be an extra cost.

[00:16:43]
Dana Hammond: Yeah.

[00:16:45]
Amanda Greene: Do you have any strategies for people who start to feel a little uncomfortable at sea?

[00:16:51]
Dana Hammond: I think it’s usually tied to the motion sickness. First of all, you can start by picking a great cabin for that, if that’s a concern of yours. The middle of the ship and lower is generally where you feel the least amount of motion. I also would suggest a balcony cabin because then you have access to fresh air and the horizon. The horizon usually sets your brain straight and you realize why you’re feeling a little woozy. There are, of course, medications you can take. I see people wearing sea bands that have pressure points.

But also I’d like to say that these ships are very stable, so I don’t want people to really have too much fear about that. They actually have stabilizers, which are these airplane wing things that kind of come out from the side of the ship while you’re at sea and help stabilize the ship. So it’s more often that you might forget you’re actually at sea than be worrying about that for most people. But if you have terrible issues, of course there is a medical center on the ship and they’ll help you out.

[00:17:43]
Amanda Greene: I’m sure you’ve met a few people who are naysayers when it comes to cruising over the years, right?

[00:17:50]
Dana Hammond: Yes.

[00:17:50]
Amanda Greene: What do you tell them?

[00:17:51]
Dana Hammond: It usually turns out that you need to do a little bit of myth busting, which I think we’ve done. They’ll say it’s too pricey and yet there’s various price points and there’s a lot of value included in the price that you pay. Or they’ll worry about the motion sickness and we’ve just talked about that. Or that the cruise is too crowded. Even on the biggest ship, you can find these nooks where you’re okay with having a private moment or looking at the sea and no one else seems to be around. So you can definitely seek that out. Also, that they’re bored and that’s just a hard no. There’s no way you can be.

[00:18:23]
Amanda Greene: Right.

[00:18:25]
Dana Hammond: No. If you want to be active, you can be active.

[00:18:27]
Amanda Greene: And as someone who is so passionate about cruising and loves the experience, what would you tell someone who is on the fence about trying one?

[00:18:37]
Dana Hammond: I would say go. In a life well traveled, you cannot miss out on cruising. You have to try it, and the odds are you’re going to love it. Passenger surveys and nonprofits, they show that first time cruisers have an experience that exceeds their expectations. And I always love the stat that they kind of put their money where their mouth is and book a second cruise fairly quickly after the first one.

So it’s really not much of a leap of faith to try it. You’re probably going to have an amazing time. And whether you’re choosing one of these big leviathans of the sea with all the activities or a smaller ship for a more sedate experience, I guarantee you you can find your slice of seafaring heaven out there and you’re going to have a beautiful sail away if you try it.

[00:19:21]
Amanda Greene: Before we let you go, we’re going to ask you just some rapid fire questions. Are you ready, Dana Hammond?

[00:19:26]
Dana Hammond: I think so. I don’t know, let’s see.

[00:19:29]
Amanda Greene: How many cruises have you been on?

[00:19:30]
Dana Hammond: Okay, more than 100. And it’s unusual that I don’t know my exact number because cruisers usually do know their exact number and my sister thinks it’s 150 at least.

[00:19:40]
Amanda Greene: What’s the wildest amenity you’ve ever seen on a ship?

[00:19:44]
Dana Hammond: I’m going to go with skydiving simulator.

[00:19:46]
Amanda Greene: What? Have you ever been on a ship where someone was left behind at a port?

[00:19:52]
Dana Hammond: Yes.

[00:19:53]
Amanda Greene: What happened?

[00:19:53]
Dana Hammond: I have. Most recently, I was in Alaska in the port of Juneau, which is a very easy port to navigate on your own, so I would almost recommend that. And these people were obviously doing that. There’s a chairlift to the top of a lookout point. And I had been chatting with them for a minute or two, lovely couple, and they said to me, “Is that ship pulling out?” And they pointed to it, and here I was excited. I said, “Yeah, we’re going to get to watch it sail away.” And they’re like, “We’re on that ship.”

I felt so bad for them because, Amanda, Juneau of all places, to get to Juneau, you have to take the Marine Highway or fly in on a float plane, and it’s your responsibility to get to the ship. Those are the rules. So I have seen that. You need to manage your time when you’re on shore. If you’re not going with an organized shore excursion where they’re going to do that for you, you need to be cognizant of where you are and when the ship leaves.

[00:20:49]
Amanda Greene: Great tip. Have you ever seen any sea life from the ship?

[00:20:54]
Dana Hammond: Yes, absolutely. In fact, in Alaska, most of the itineraries include a glacier viewing experience. And I’ve been in Glacier Bay. It’s funny, your ship seems big when you’re on it, most ships even, when you’re not on the hugest ship. And then you cruise up to this glacier and you’re kind of dwarfed in the presence of it. So it’s spectacular to begin with, and hopefully it calves for you and it smashes into the water and creates all these bergy, icy bits.

And we’ve seen whales, we’ve seen incredible bird life. You can spot wildlife and experience the beautiful inner passage. And for families, it’s kind of an expedition type cruise without really being a true expedition. It just has a lot to offer.

[00:21:35]
Amanda Greene: Dana, thank you so much for coming on today and sharing all of your passion for cruising and some amazing tips. When you’ve never done something before, you have no idea what to expect.

[00:21:45]
Dana Hammond: Right.

[00:21:45]
Amanda Greene: You have really painted a picture for first time cruisers to kind of have an idea of what they’re getting themselves into.

[00:21:51]
Dana Hammond: I hope so.

[00:21:52]
Amanda Greene: So thank you for doing that.

[00:21:53]
Dana Hammond: Amanda, thank you so much.

[00:21:55]
Amanda Greene: That was travel writer Dana Hammond, and before that, Ilana Schattauer of Life Well Cruised. Honestly, I’ve never stepped foot on a private island or cruised past a glacier. But hey, I’ve also never gone ice skating on a ship or played pickleball with the ocean as my backdrop. Who knew there were so many ways to experience life at sea? Now that I’m thinking about it, maybe it’s time to start adding this stuff to that bucket list so that I can check it off.

You’ve been listening to Merging into Life, where we navigate life’s milestones one episode at a time, brought to you by AAA Northeast with assistance from JAR Audio. I’m your host, Amanda Greene. We would love to hear what you think. Your feedback really matters to us, so if you have any ideas for an episode or you just want to say hi, please leave a review wherever you listen or email us at podcast@AAANortheast.com.

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are not necessarily the views of AAA Northeast, AAA, and/ or its affiliates.

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RESOURCES

Book a Cruise With AAA

The ABCs of Cruising

Get to Know Northeast Cruise Departures Ports

20 Over-the-Top Things To Do on a Cruise Ship

Debunking Common Cruise Myths

Dana Hammond

Life Well Cruised

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*The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are not necessarily the views of AAA Northeast, AAA and/or its affiliates.

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EPISODE SUMMARY

In this episode of Merging Into Life, hosts Julien and Kiersten Saunders of “rich & REGULAR” dive into the complex (but essential!) topic of money and relationships. Joined by psychologist and relationship expert Dr. Abby Medcalf, they unpack how financial conversations can deepen connection, why shame and silence around spending are so common, and how to turn money stress into meaningful dialogue. From first-date red flags to managing money before marriage and the nuances of combining finances, this episode offers practical advice on how to build financial intimacy and stop keeping score in your relationship.

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KEY TAKEAWAYS

• How to talk to your partner about money openly, discussing how you spend and save, builds financial intimacy and trust, especially when couples approach these conversations as opportunities to learn, not to judge.
• Asking simple questions like “What do you enjoy spending money on?” is a low-pressure way to start early financial conversations and reveal money values before they become friction points
• Shame around debt or spending habits often gets in the way of honest dialogue; reframing your money mindset through self-awareness and empathy makes long-term change more possible
• Conflict over finances is common, but avoiding the conversation entirely is more damaging—timing, tone, and intention matter more than the numbers themselves
• Treating your finances as a shared resource instead of keeping score helps couples move from financial tension to teamwork, especially when managing joint goals or recovering from money stress.

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TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:00] Julien: Our first conversation about money was our first argument about money.

[00:00:05] Kiersten: He’s putting it lightly.

[00:00:06] Julien: Well, it’s true.

[00:00:07] Kiersten: I decided to tell him how much debt I had, which led to another conversation, which led to a breakup. It started out pretty rough and rocky, but obviously we recovered.

[00:00:19] Julien: When I think back to that argument, it was one of the worst days of my life. We wanted to celebrate that we just had a vacation. And that, to me, was just so bizarre. I assumed post-vacation was a time to buckle down and get back to rice and beans.

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[00:00:37] Kiersten: I mean, after 10 days of vacation, to come back and just buckle down. I wanted a smoother landing. In my smooth landing, I was like, all right, let’s go get some drinks. Let’s go out. Let’s go on a date. And you were like, “we just did that, for 10 days.” And so, it led to a much bigger conversation around how we were managing our finances, because, at the time, we were making the same money. So, he’s like, where do you have all of this money to continue to spend at this level? And I was like, “credit cards, duh”.

[00:01:12] Julien: Hello and welcome to Merging Into Life. We are so excited to be partnering with AAA Northeast to guide you through a miniseries all about planning for your financial future. I’m Julien.

[00:01:22] Kiersten: And I’m Kiersten, and we’re the hosts of the “rich & REGULAR” podcast. Together, we’ve paid off over $200,000 in debt and have been helping so many others do the same. Today’s topic is one that we have a lot of experience with, because we do it all the time.

[00:01:35] Julien: Yeah, today we’re talking about money and relationships, more specifically how you can have more effective conversations with your partner around your finances. Our guest today is Dr. Abby Medcalf. She’s a psychologist, author, podcast host and speaker who specializes in relationship dynamics. She brings a rare blend of clinical insight and real-world advice, plus an MBA that helps her talk about money as comfortably as she talks about emotions.

[00:02:05] Kiersten: Thank you, Abby, for joining us. In your own words, can you tell our listeners a little bit about you and who you are and what you do?

[00:02:12] Abby: I have sort of an odd background that I have a master’s in counseling psychology, the MBA and then I have Ph.D. in organizational psychology. So, I have this blend of therapy and counseling as well as business and coaching. And I put that all together on my own podcast and my books, etc.

[00:02:30] Kiersten: One of the things that I love about your work is that you have said that financial conversations can actually improve a relationship, can improve the intimacy and make you feel closer. Why does that happen?

[00:02:43] Abby: When we think about relationships, you know, to have a truly intimate relationship, meaning emotionally close. An emotionally close relationship, you have to have trust, and the only way to have trust is to have vulnerability, and this sort of transparency with how we talk to our partners and what we share. And not honesty, I always separate those two, it’s not about honesty, it is about this transparency, right? It’s real openness. And clarity, and when money, I think for many reasons, you know, there’s people have money shame, different money backgrounds. I think money is often not talked about much. I can’t tell you how many people have come to me and I asked them about money. I’m like, oh, how are you guys doing financially? Where’s the money go? I always ask those questions, and they’ll say to me, wow, you’re the fifth couples council we’ve ever seen and no one’s ever asked us about money? If you think about why people divorce, money is in one of those top categories. So it’s crazy to me that it’s not even mentioned But once you get past that and just keep at it, the close that you know common goals really going towards something together. We are a partnership, right that that to me. It’s the only reason i’m married like why else do it? We are competing in a couple. If we have secrets in a couple, then we’re in a lot of trouble. You know, it’s your turn to take away, take out the garbage. It’s your turn to put up the dishes. It you’d spent money on this. Now I get to spend money on this, all that division and not seeing yourselves as a shared resource is the problem or for keeping score with our partner. If I’m keeping score in a game, I got to tell you I’m pretty competitive. I want to win. And if I’m winning and my partner’s losing, then we’re not winning as a couple. You throw kids in the mix and forget it, right? That is really when the keeping score really starts. And money is just one of the many ways that this shows up. 

[00:04:45] Julien: Kiersten would tell you she can probably tell you maybe five or seven of the things that you said that maybe triggered me and made me think of conversations or hostile conversations. I’m sure you have a term for whatever a financial argument is. I, too, have found it very interesting that there are some things that people would never talk about on the first date. When exactly should people have these first or these early conversations about money? I know I’ve tried it on like the first day, and that part didn’t work. I can’t speak for everyone. Maybe it was me. But what do you think is the right time and exactly how should people be approaching those conversations for the very first time?

[00:05:25] Abby: I think in the very beginning, it’s about observing. I wouldn’t even start the conversation because there’s already a conversation happening. So, what do you usually do on a first date? Often you meet for a drink, or you have dinner or something, right? So, one of the first things I’m watching, I’m thinking of my husband, I was watching, first of all, just what he ordered. If you’re sitting there, if you order a little soup and the other person’s like, I’m having the lobster and whatever, you’re sort of like, OK. This person’s not vibing with where I am right now, right? Did the person mention, “hey, I’m going to treat,” you know, or “hey, I really am hoping that we each pay our own.” And I’m not saying you should test people. Don’t ever do that. If you want to be clear up front, be clear up front. I’m always looking at how people tip. I grew up in the restaurant industry. So, I, and I worked in it for many years. I’m all always about what’s happening with the tip and how, obviously, this person is treating our server and that kind of thing. But that’s not money. That’s just observing, right, how they are in general with who’s around them, how they treat people. You notice first, and then you have the conversations as you go. But I wouldn’t have the conversation necessarily of, you know, how much do you make? I mean, you could. I don’t see anything wrong with that. I think it’s more about how do you like to spend your money? That’s one of my favorite, that was one of my first questions to him. I said, how do you spend money? Like what’s your favorite thing to spend money on? My favorite thing is spend money on his food, because I am a foodie. My Gary hates, he would take a pill every day if he could, no interest in food whatsoever. But that was a great conversation for us, right? My Gary will not spend, I’m not making this up. He will not spend $100 on a pair of sneakers. Like, will not. Like, to him, it’s outrageous. And I’m bougie as they come. But you have to decide. One is not right and one is not wrong. And I always say go into every conversation looking to learn something, not prove something. So, if you can go in with real curiosity, like, you know, what, tell me about your Louis Vuitton. What does that mean to you? And to him, it’s outrageous. And, so, we had to discuss how that would look and what is important to me and why. And it was really great for me to think about why. Like, why is that important? Why do I have all those bags? You know, not to be defensive about it, but to really ask myself about it. Am I trying to prove something? When you can’t go in without being defensive and having money shame about it? And just saying, well, because I like it, what does that even mean? Why did, you know, it’s wonderful to know why you like something. Why is food important to me? Why is anything important to me? You know, what is that? Let’s learn about our partners. Let’s be curious what interests them and you know. So those first money conversations, I would say are like that.

[00:08:08] Kiersten: Love talking about money because it reveals so much, and I think your answer just touched on such an important point that the money itself, the conversation about the money itself isn’t the taboo part. The part where people get it wrong is the mindset.

[00:08:24] Abby: What I hear the most from couples, they’ll say, “oh, he’s a spender, and I’m a saver.” And my first reaction always is everyone is a spender. There is not a person alive who doesn’t spend money. It is this idea of someone’s good with money, someone’s bad with money. These labels that we put on each other and or sometimes ourselves because of our own money shame, right? Because it definitely, if you looked at Gary and I, you would say, “oh, she’s a spender, and he’s a saver.” But he spent, there’s lots of things my man spends money on. Like there’s lots of things he enjoys that I think are crazy, like Spartan races and triathlons and things like that. I would never spend a penny on that, because I’m wearing stilettos right now. I can’t run in those, right? And yeah, his ratio of what he earns to what he saves is higher than mine, and we’ve worked that all out. We’ve talked about it.

[00:09:00] Kiersten: When we talk about the emotional side of money, one thing that always comes up is peace of mind. And there’s nothing more reassuring than knowing your loved ones are protected no matter what. AAA Insurance offers a range of life insurance coverage options to help you plan confidently for the future. Whether you’re just getting started or reviewing your current plan, it’s a smart step toward long-term security. Visit AAA.com/Insurance to learn about the options available to AAA Northeast members.

[00:09:10] Kiersten: There’s been so many times, as you’ve been talking about you and Gary, that I hear Kiersten and Julien, because we are opposites in a lot of the same ways. Even the way that we grew up. I was the one who grew up comfortably. Julian grew up very differently. And we brought a lot of that baggage into our relationship. And once we started to unpack it in front of each other, I actually felt a lot of shame because I struggled with debt, and I struggled with spending responsibly, and I struggled with not believing that there was never going to be an end to the good times and the income and the things that I wanted. So I want to spend some time talking about shame and what you’ve learned from different couples in terms of how to navigate it. Is there a time where shame could actually be useful or helpful? Like should you, is feeling a little bit of shame ever a good thing?

[00:10:02] Abby: No. Because shame is a fear-based emotion and no relationship was ever made better with fear ever in the history of relationships. That’s like people tell me, “well, my anxiety helps me get productive at work.” I’m like, “no, we need another way, right?” I don’t want ever shame to be a motivator. If my butt is looking too big, and I think I got to get back to the gym, and I’ve got to cut down on the Oreos, right? But that’s not from shame. That’s from like, I want to be healthy. I want, like, how I feel in my clothing. So, I wouldn’t want money to come from there either. I would want that to feel like it’s because I love myself that I want these things or that I want to save. One of the things I say a lot is never take action from negative motivation. Always take it from inspiration. Because when we take it from negative motivation, somewhere it starts to fall apart because we transmit that. One of my favorite pieces of research ever in the history of all the research, and I’m a research junkie, is from Timothy Wilson. He found that our conscious brains process information, and this will relate back, I promise. Our conscious brains process information at a rate of 40 bits per second. While our subconscious or unconscious brains process information at a rate of 11 million bits per second. So people don’t hear what you say, they hear what you mean. And we all know we’ve been there where someone was talking, saying all the right things to us, and we were like, “I don’t like this person.” Like I’m getting a funky feeling, right? What’s the problem? It’s because that 11 million bits is picking up on what I call the wobble. There’s something out of sync. And it’s from fear, probably the person’s ego, or they’re trying to manipulate me, or maybe they’re a narcissist, who knows, right? I just know there’s a wobble. I just know that what they’re saying isn’t aligning with something I’m feeling. So, you can think something, right, like I don’t wanna have debt, because it’s a bad thing or it’s, and who would wanna have debt? Debt isn’t necessarily a good thing to have, certainly revolving debt. So, you could say that. But if there’s a part of you that’s kind of like, but is it really so bad? Or if somewhere it’s a belief that my worth in the world is based on my transactional quality of what I have, then that’s a wobble.

[00:12:27] Julien: In our experience, and not just in our relationship, because we were able to rebound after that first financial conflict. Because all this talk about opposites attracting, but I think when it comes to money, when you’re such in opposition in terms of your values, how do you help people to rebound? Right? Like, let’s say they’re listening to this podcast, they are all excited, they go, and they try to have that first conversation, and they don’t want to be like us and have that lead into an argument. But then that person is just resisting, right. Like, how do we help people get over that hump, get over those first arguments?

[00:13:05] Abby: There’s a few questions in there. First one is really, how do you have the money conversations? How do you have any conversation? I always say it’s like painting a room. You know, if you’ve ever painted a room, you know that you spend 90 percent of your time getting the room ready. And if you do that, if you tape off all the corners, if you put a tarp over everything, if you, you know, no one wants to spend the time doing that, right? You know if you sand the walls, if you if you all that stuff, the painting takes 2 minutes and looks amazing at the end. But that’s what you have to do in the conversation. You have to prep yourself first, first and foremost. If you really can’t wait to say something to someone, I usually tell people it’s not the right time to say it. One of my other little slogans, my hubby calls them a therapeutic jingles. I have a lot of these, right? You have connect to correct. So, you have to be connected first if you want to have a correcting conversation. When we’re fighting, I don’t want to do anything for you. Exactly. I really don’t. If you just told me that I spend too much money, and I’m stupid, and I am whatever, which I would never put up with, but let’s say you did. I don’t want to change. But when we’re connected, and I feel this real lovely space and that’s just sort of brewing, and you might say, “can we talk about something?” So, timing and tone, right? Timing is that you’re connected first. And I know a lot of people are like, oh, we’re getting along. I don’t want to rock the boat. And it’s like this. No, this is the only time to talk about it. The only time you should be, right. Then you set your intention. I really want to talk to you about money. And I know money can immediately feel fine. I know my heart is racing just saying it to you. This is where you get very transparent. And it’s my intention to really listen. It’s my attention that I learn something from the conversation. It’s my intention to truly understand sort of your take on money, and I hope you would have that with me. I always say the one and the most pain needs to change first. So, if you’re the one who’s really having the pain here, it’s going to be on you to listen. And when you do that, and it’s my intention that we both walk away really feeling heard, no matter what else, that both of us feel heard. Because I love you, and I want us to have a future, and I know money has to be part of it, and I don’t know how to get there yet. So, I want to figure it out together. Here’s what you do. Here is how you set it up. You know, set up the room to paint. Because having this conversation on the fly, you’re shopping at Office Depot, and all of a sudden, it’s like, “you spend too much money on nothing, “because you picked up the pen with the feathers on it, and they’re like, “you spend too much money garbage.” It’s like this is not your time. This is not time to have the conversation, but that’s what happens. People are like, well, you bought this yesterday. We start keeping score, right? And no one’s winning, no one is winning. So, if you can, you can say, “you know what, I’m going to buy the pen now, and we’ll talk about it later.” Or put the pen back for now and we’ll talk about it later. But either way this isn’t the time or place and that has to do with mindfulness. That’s a whole other thing, which to me, is the No. 1 thing you have to have in your relationship so you know this. But regardless, it’s really about having the intention going in. We go in trying to learn something that proves something that I honor that we have different preferences, and I’d like to learn more about your preferences, just be very clear about where you’re focused. And you will problem-solve better.

[00:16:28] Kiersten: What advice do you give or do you coach your clients with to help them address a fear of conflict or at least see conflict as a necessary part of any financial relationship or relationship in general? Because one of the things that I had a fear response to in our relationship early on was conflict. I had this idea of what a healthy relationship looked like and certainly what a healthy financial relationship looked like, and it was one that was free of conflict. It was one where he handled everything, and I just got to do what I do.

[00:17:03] Abby: By the way, I think conflict avoidance is probably the biggest issue we have today, period. Businesses, personal, everywhere. And the texting in relationships makes me insane. Should never be texting anything but logistics. Texting is not connecting. If you have to use an emoji or a cap to say what you mean, then you should take it off of text. But it’s so easy these days to text, only text logistics. I grew up at a time when we didn’t have phones. Like, I don’t know what to tell you. We lived, we were fine. And I think we were better off in a lot of ways without this like pacifier in our mouth all the time, and that will avoid a lot of conflict right there. But your second thing is that you have to rethink what conflict is. I would say there’s no, I bet you two don’t really have conflict. It is a disagreement. It is not.

[00:17:49] Julien: Not anymore. I mean, yeah.

[00:17:51] Abby: Yeah. But get over the word conflict, you know, just saying it, right, makes you think, ah, I don’t, oh, no, no, no, no, no. It’s about, and I would say if it’s consistent that you’re disagreeing all the time, then yeah, I would say, slow your roll. That’s usually what I say to clients who, you know. If there’s a lot of that kind of back and forth all the time, kind of about everything, slow your roll. You’re going too fast. You’re not, you’re not being mindful in your moments. You’re not thinking enough, because a lot of it you could probably let go.

[00:18:42] Julien: Big thanks again to Abby Medcalf. You know, when I think back to our very first conversation. I really, really wish I had the insight and the temperament that Abby kind of coaches people to have, because I certainly know that we would not have said half of the things that we said during that conversation. I really, really wish that I had the insight that Abby is offering on this podcast because I would not have come in as hot and heavy and ready to bombard you with that conversation so consider this an apology.

[00:19:16] Kiersten: I’ll take it. Yeah, I think what Abby is really good at is reframing what healthy conversations look like even in conflict. It’s like you don’t realize how many times in your life you’re going to have to relearn how to have a conversation with someone that you’ve known and loved for a long time. And this isn’t just true of like romantic partners, even with your family or with your kids, you evolve. And you have to be able to revisit conversations, leave room for places where maybe someone’s changed their mind, or you’ve changed yours. I want to say battle, but that feels like a very aggressive term, but you really have to fight to get to the other side of that conflict, because what’s there is just so rich and juicy and healthy and necessary for the relationship to be sustainable.

[00:20:01] Julien: Yeah, it may start like a battle, but I think once you two get on the same page, then it can kind of turn into a little bit of a dance. You know, you’re moving to the same beat as opposed to conflicting and bumping heads all the time or stepping on each other’s toes.

[00:20:14] Kiersten: And a dance battle sounds way more fun than a regular battle.

[00:20:18] Julien: There’s that part.

[00:20:20] Kiersten: All right, guys, we’ll link to Abby’s financial meeting guide and budget template in the show notes. And if you’re ready to sit down and have that talk with your partner, maybe start with one of her favorite lines, which is, “tell me more about that.”

[00:20:31] Julien Yeah. Thanks for listening to Merging Into Life, brought to you by AAA Northeast. If you like what you heard, subscribe, leave a review and share the episode with someone who needs it.

[00:20:50] Kiersten: The views and opinions expressed in this podcast do not constitute financial advice and are not necessarily the views of AAA Northeast, AAA, and or its affiliates.

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RESOURCES

Merging Into Life: Budgeting 101

Love and Life Insurance

Money Saving Habits

Money Mistakes to Avoid in Retirement

Retirement Withdrawal Strategies to Think About

Julien & Kiersten Saunders: rich & REGULAR

Dr. Abby Medcalf’s Relationship Tips and Tools

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Want to Learn More? Drop Us a Note

*The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are not necessarily the views of AAA Northeast, AAA and/or its affiliates.

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EPISODE SUMMARY

Hosts Julien and Kiersten of rich & REGULAR sit down with Certified Financial Planner™ Eoin McGee to unpack the emotional baggage and financial anxiety we carry around money. Together, they explore why money feels so personal and how our upbringing shapes the way we spend, save and respond to financial stress.

From the psychology behind subconscious spending to answering questions like, “why do I feel guilty spending money?” and the stories we tell ourselves about being bad with money, this episode of Merging Into Life offers a compassionate look at how to talk about money fears and how changing your mindset can help you change your habits.

You’ll walk away with practical to stop worrying about money, build new behaviors and feel more in control of your financial wellness.

Listen to part 1 of Julien and Kiersten’s three-part miniseries on financial futures: How To Talk to Your Partner About Money.

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KEY TAKEAWAYS

• Subconscious spending is sneaky and costly. One of the best psychological tips for saving money is keeping a simple spending journal for one week (and reviewing it on paper). This can reveal which purchases add value to your life and which purchases.
• Start small, save consistently. To stop worrying about money, you must become “a saver,” which starts with behavior, not big bucks. Building the habit (even at $5 a week) can change your identity and confidence, reducing financial anxiety.
• Lifestyle creep is real. As your income grows, your spending often expands to match it. The key to avoiding this? Automate savings first, then spend what’s left so your priorities come before your paycheck.
• Money mindsets are formed early, but not fixed. Whether you mirror or reject your family’s approach to money, you can unlearn limiting beliefs that cause money stress and rewrite your financial story with intention. Learning how to talk about money fears is a powerful first step.
• Financial advice scales, no matter your income. The same strategies that work for someone managing $250 work for someone managing $250,000. True financial wellness is not about the number; it’s about the behavior.

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TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:01] Kiersten: I think a lot of my childhood memories set me up to understand how to spend money but not necessarily be financially literate in how money is earned and saved and invested. I had lots of opinions on how to spend. My childhood memory around spending definitely starts in the cafeteria. I don’t know if this is true for all kids and my mom would put out our lunch money on the counter, and every day my brother would grab what we needed, and I remember having that first freedom of choice. I would get basically snacks instead of a meal because I could, and then I would come home starving. But I remember that being my first like shopping experience was in my school cafeteria.

[00:00:42] Julien: Yeah, food. Food’s one of the few things parents allow kids to use their own money and spend, and then they punish them for not making wise decisions. Later on, none of that. I grew up in New York in the 1980s, and we were never poor, but we were always right on the edge. Because my mother worked in Manhattan, whenever I would go to Manhattan, you start to see all the big buildings and really start to see the New York City that I think a lot of people see on television, that’s where you realize, oh, that’s where the money is. So the money’s not where we live. It’s over there in Manhattan in the high rises in the hotels. And so my perspective was always a bit shaped by that. Hey everyone, welcome back to Merging Into Life, where we’re teaming up with AAA Northeast to help you navigate everyday life through smart financial conversations. I’m Julien.

[00:01:29] Kiersten: And I’m Kiersten, and today’s episode is all about what’s going on underneath the numbers, because we’re talking about the emotions of money.

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[00:01:36] Julien: Now, most of us already know the basics like spend less than you earn, save when you can, but that’s not always the hard part. The hard part is why we don’t do what we know we should. That’s where emotions come in.

[00:01:48] Kiersten: Exactly and for a lot of people learning how to feel differently about money is what made it possible to act differently with money.

[00:01:55] Julien: I think one of the most popular phrases with respect to money is, when you know better, you do better. Which brings me to our conversation today. I had a really great conversation with Eoin.

[00:02:06] Kiersten: Yeah, I’m so sad I missed that conversation, but I really enjoyed listening to the episode.

[00:02:10] Julien: Yeah. Eoin McGee is a financial expert, author of How to Be Good with Money, and the founder of Prosperous Financial, where he offers private financial planning with a focus on long-term holistic strategies.

[00:02:20] Kiersten: He’s known for breaking down the emotional and psychological side of money, from financial anxiety and subconscious spending to reshaping your mindset and building habits that last.

[00:02:33] Julien: Can you start by sharing just a little bit more about yourself and what got you interested in learning about finance?

[00:02:39] Eoin: Yeah, it’s actually quite a personal story. When I was two, my dad had a heart attack, and he had a quadruple bypass. And when I was six, he had another heart attack, and he had three stents put in. And then when I was eight, he had another heart attack, and he had a quintuple bypass, which is five of them. And he was only 48 at the time. And he turned to his doctor and his consultant, his cardiologist, and said 48 years of age, in the last six years, I’ve had three major heart incidents, what am I doing wrong? And his doctor sat back and said, the problem is stress. And the doctor asked him, what’s the biggest stress in your life? And dad sat back, and he wasn’t a financial planner, he had nothing to do with the profession I’m in today, but he was very successful in his career. And he kind of sat back. And he said, sure, I want to give up work, but you know what I’ll do, I’ll see if the finances can decide it for me. So I’ll often see if I can afford to give it up. And it turned out that along the way at some stage, I don’t know in the States what you call it, but in Ireland we would have called it in the 80s, an insurance salesman. That guy had reached my dad and had sold him an income protection policy. But basically what it meant for dad was, because on medical grounds he was being suggested that it gives up work. He was able to give up work, and he was on 75 percent of his wages until he was fit enough to go back to work or he hit normal retirement age, whichever came first. And it did take my dad a little bit of time to get his head around it but at 50 years of age dad stopped working. And he was able to look after his health and he was there for me. He was there and he made my breakfast before school in the morning. He started driving the school bus to the football matches. He sat on the board of the committee, the parents association. He was around, but the point was he was there. Something struck me. And when I finished up in college, I was offered a job in a big insurance company that happened to be the same insurance company that sold my dad the income protection. And I was very quickly drawn to the idea that I want to do for other families, what that insurance salesman did for my family, which gave us extra years with that. So in simple terms, what drew me to this, I just want to make sure people get the most out of their money. And it’s because someone else did that for me or did that for my family.

[00:04:57] Julien: It immediately made me think about my nephew, who is in his 40s right now, who has a long, long list of ailments in this having his own struggles all while trying to support four children. It brought me back to what first interested me in talking about finance and wanting to share our personal stories and everything that we’ve learned. My wife and I to help other people in couples, because more often than not, it is some type of struggle or conflict in their life, whether it’s in their relationships or some kind of familiar situation that forces people to come to grips with their spending and the way that they think about money and the way that manage money. Now you talk a lot about subconscious spending, which I’m really curious to hear more about. Can you just explain what that is, and how can we tell when we’re doing it?

[00:05:44] Eoin: So subconscious, there’s a difference between subconscious spending and conscious spending. And the main difference here is subconscious spending is walking into the shop to get a Diet Coke. And that’s conscious spending, you went in there to get the Diet Coke. Subconscious spending is walking out with a Diet Coke and a bar of chocolate, right? You went in to do something, but when you actually walked out, you go, oh, hold on a second, I’ve got two things here, because somewhere along the line, the marketing department got into your head to say, you like this bar of chocolate, get this bar of chocolate, you need to buy this now, right. And that’s a subconscious spend. And I try and bring it down to the lowest common denomination, because there’s lots of subconscious spends we do. Like, walking by your barista in the morning, that might be a conscious spend. I need my coffee to get my day going, right? But is the fourth time you walk by the barista that day, is that habit or is that a conscious spend? What was the difference? Like, we all have somebody in the office or a friend or a partner, preferably not your partner, right, but somebody who is a nightmare to deal with till they have coffee in the morning. Okay, and I think that’s something that they really need to have. But that person can often say, oh no, but it has to be that coffee from that barista, or I can’t get on with my day. And then all of a sudden, they’re making their coffees at home with pods and doing it all, and they survived it. So there is a thing there about where we just spend, because it’s hampers from where we spend, because it is conscious spending. There’s a really good way of recognizing the difference between the two of them. And the way you recognize it is, I would put a challenge out that don’t change your spending for the next week. Keep your spending as it is, okay? But every time you spend, take out your phone and go into the notes section and write down, Diet Coke, $2.50, whatever the dollars is, right? Bar of chocolate,$ 2.00. Pair of jeans, $100. Drinks with the girls after work, $60 or whatever it turns out to be. But every time you spend money, just spend like you always spend, but every time you spend, I want you to write it down. And this day next week, take out your phone, take out a pen and a piece of paper. This is really important to do with a pen a piece paper. Something happens in our brain when it comes to pen and paper. Just goes in a bit deeper. Okay. So write a line, put a line down the middle of the page on one side of the page, put conscious spending, on the other side of page, but subconscious spending. I want you to take everything from your notes section and put it on one side or the other and remember the barista coffee first thing in the morning might have been a conscious spend but was the fourth one. Some people struggle with this a little bit actually and if you change the headings a little to added value to my life or didn’t add value to my life. Okay and once you’ve got those lists put down and again there are certain things and certain circumstances will add value in your life. So for example I do a lot of travel. When I travel, if I’m traveling for work, like, if I’m speaking at an engagement in the US, for example, and I’m over at a conference and I speak at the conference, I really don’t care what the hotel is like. Provided it’s safe, and provided it’s clean, and provided that it’s quiet and I can sleep, I’m happy with the hotel, okay? When I travel for leisure, I want a nice pool or whatever the circumstance, I want it to be nice, right? So, in different circumstances, different things add different value to us, okay. And what I would say is it’s about trying to just take that week as an example and applying what added value to my life, what didn’t add value to it, what was a conscious or what was the subconscious spend. Because once you’ve done that, and you’ve taught up everything on the right hand column, if that’s the way you’re doing it, everything that’s other than the subconscious or didn’t have value to our life, you can calculate how much money did I spend last week on stuff that added no value to your life. Because guess what? If you strip that out of your life next week, your enjoyment of life is still exactly the same, but you’ve identified $50 or $60 out of $80 that you can now go and put to some use somewhere else, whether that’s saving or clearing down debt or building your buffer or whatever it is that you wanna do, you’ve got money there without devaluing what you enjoy out of life or without diminishing the value you put on life. I think that’s a really important exercise. Some people would do it, and they say, oh, do I have to do this from now on? Absolutely not. It’s when you feel that wallet leakage is kicking in again, that you need to jump back in again and do it. Maybe the first time you do it, you might do it five or six weeks later, but then you might do it for five or six months because you feel like you’re on top of it. And you do eventually get become a master of it

[00:10:14] Kiersten: Talking money with your partner isn’t always easy, but sharing a AAA membership is an easy win. From roadside assistance to savings on entertainment and dining, travel and insurance, AAA is one of the few things couples always agree on. And if you’re already a member, consider upgrading to add your partner or family members. It’s a small step that can go a long way in your financial life together. Explore benefits at AAA.com/join.

[00:10:40] Julien: You know, we, I believe, call it value-based spending. It’s just this idea. It’s like a supplementary exercise, and I and I completely agree with you there’s something powerful about writing those things down, and then just try to identify some of those patterns and that tends to identify or at least categorize some areas where you think people really should keep it because these are things that obviously are rated very highly by you but it forces people to go through that kind of pruning exercise to say wow I didn’t realize I spent so much money on things that I am also admitting I’m not adding that much value to my life. What’s really interesting is over time, you start to realize that some of the things that you used to rate or rank really highly, you don’t rank them nearly as highly anymore.

[00:11:24] Eoin: Interesting, though, because I do think that’s actually there’s a piece of research out there that describes exactly what you’re talking about. So if you think about it now, and I’m going to put you on the spot, but is there a particular band or a singer or somebody who you think, I just love them right now? Is there anyone you can think of that you just like if they’re coming to town, you’re going.

[00:11:44] Julien: If I’m being honest, no, because that’s another one of those things that has completely fallen off my radar. But 10 years ago, I would have said there was a band called Lake Street Dive that I would have absolutely loved. And I have paid to go see them perform.

[00:11:58] Eoin: It’s actually proven my point even better now. So 10 years ago, if we had to be having a chat, and I said to you, Lake Street Band, is up to say Lake Street, what you call them?

[00:12:06] Julien: Lake Street Dive.

[00:12:07] Eoin: Lake Street Dive, right? I said you, Lake Street Dive are on tonight. I have the last ticket. And you would have said to me, I’ll buy the ticket off you. I’ll give you $100, $200, $300, $500. We roll forward 10 years. Lake Street Dive playing tonight. You want to go maybe nostalgia, but I’m not paying more than $50 for the ticket. And it’s because our values do change over time. And that’s really important to recognize that. But it’s important to be able to really dive into that to make sure that you keep on checking, not only on yourself, but if you’re in a relationship that you’re checking on the other persons as well, so that your values align with each other.

[00:12:40] Julien: If you’re talking about spending conscious and subconscious spending, I found that people tend to disregard the importance of the value or the power of the little things. What do you think people can learn from small or consistent habit building?

[00:12:55] Eoin: I was speaking at a conference, I do a lot of corporate speaking, right, and public engagements and that type of thing. And I was speak at a particular conference and the audience would have been very heavily reliant on what you guys have called social security or certainly on the lower income bracket, and that was the purpose of being there was to try and help these people change their financial future. And somebody came up to me at the end of the conference and kind of approached me as I was coming down off the stage and said, oh, can I just stop you there for a minute? Yeah, of course. And she said I heard you say something about 12 weeks ago on radio, and I started saving for the first time. And I’ve never had savings in my life. She had 60 euros in savings because she had saved 5 euros a week. And I’ll be honest, I don’t want to sound patronizing or anything like it. But I felt more pride in her than my clients who have millions and millions ready to invest because she was proud of herself. The switch that had changed for her was, I had said those couple of weeks before that you’re either a saver or you’re not. And this idea that people say, I’m crap at saving or I’m a terrible saver, I can’t save, that actually isn’t, isn’t true. You are either a saver or you’re not a saver, and whether you accept it or not, you have made a choice between the two. And what I will always say to people is, if you’ve made a choice and you want to switch that and you want to become a saver, you need to pick an amount of money that you say, the next time I get paid, I’m going to save that amount of the money, and I don’t care how small it is, right? I want you to start at that level, but I want it, in fact, to be so small that if you didn’t achieve it, you’d be embarrassed to tell your best mate or your partner you didn’t do it. Because what you do then over time is you turn up the volume on the savings. So you start at one dollar, you start at five dollars, you started ten dollars. The next week or the next month you get paid, you turn it up just a little bit. Turn it up. Now, the whole point of the story is if you’re saying every time I start saving, it fails. I have to dip into it by the end of the month. I never succeed with it. What you need to do is create the habit first. That’s the important thing. Get the habit going that you are now a saver. And then every week or every month or every time you get paid, you just turn up the volume a little more because the other thing you’re doing there is there’s a law called Parkinson’s Law. So Parkinson’s Law is it’s a rule reading. A rule that says a job will take as long as you give it. So if you’ve got to mow the lawn and you have an hour to do it on Saturday before you need to go out for the evening, you’ll get it done in the hour. But if you start at nine that morning and give yourself four hours, it’s gonna take four hours. Okay, just your job expands to the time that you give. And I believe the same happens with our income, OK? So you’re making $100,000 a year. You’re going to spend $100,000 a year. You’re making $200,000 dollars a year, you’re going to spend $200,000 dollars, because lifestyle creep kicks in. Your lifestyle expands to fill the income that you have. And the only way of reversing lifestyle creep or reversing Parkinson’s Law is to turn up the volume on the savings or the intentional stuff that you do on a monthly basis where it’s putting money into your 401(k) or put money savings or whatever else you’re doing.

[00:16:12] Julien: I completely agree with you. One of the questions that I get, and I would imagine you get it as well, is people place this label on themselves and they just say, I’m just, I am bad with money. That’s just who I am. It’s who I will always be. How do you help people kind of change that story that they’re telling themselves about themselves?

[00:16:30] Eoin: First of all, what I would say is, is your money personality, you’re either exactly the same or exactly opposite to the adults you grew up with, whether that’s your parents or somebody else, right? You’re going to be the same, but the opposite, because you’ll be either attracted to what they were like, or you want to be exactly different to them. And that’s embedded very early on. So the first thing to accept is that some of this is inbuilt from an early age, but just because it’s embedded from an earlier age doesn’t mean that you’re stuck with it for life. Whatever way you are right now, you can make that worse or you can make that better. You can make that choice. If you feel that you’re bad with money and you want to be different, you need to treat yourself like a child. And I’m going to get very deep here, but you almost need to speak to your inner child and relearn the stuff that’s ingrained in you so that you can get better at it, and you can be more conscious of us and more aware of us, and you get better outcomes ultimately is what it is. Money can control us or we can control it. And you can do something very simple today that just tips that balance ever so slightly back in your favor. And then it’s about getting little wins on a regular basis to create massive change over long periods of time.

[00:17:41] Julien: You actually don’t realize that you have really deeply ingrained values and beliefs about money and you’re absolutely correct. A lot of it starts with their experiences at home. I think that’s sets the tone for whether or not you believe in ideas like abundance, or if you believe that money is truly something that is scarce. I want to change gears just for a second here. You mentioned lifestyle creep, and I don’t know that everybody understands what that term means. I’m going to ask if you have any kind of tips on things that people can do to reverse or, you know, avoid lifestyle creep or some of this impulsive spending that we know people struggle with.

[00:18:21] Eoin: Yeah, so lifestyle creep in its simplest form is that when you get a pay rise, you feel, and you should feel like you need to reward yourself. So I’m going out for dinner instead of getting the takeaway as a simple example because I’ve just got a pay rise and I deserve it. And you do deserve it, and you do work hard. And if that’s something that you value and it’s really important to you, allow for that one, allow for it somewhere else as well. If you think about it, do you suffer with lifestyle creep is a question you might be asking yourself when you’re sitting at home listening to this and you’re, why suffer with lifestyle creep? Ask yourself, when is the last time you got a pay rise? And there’d be lots of people who would say, I got a pay rise 12 months ago. How does that feel now? And most people will answer, well, it’s made no difference to me whatsoever. And what’s happened there is, is their lifestyle has increased to fill the amount of money that they have, and they just do nicer things with that money. The way to reverse this, and it’s really clear how you reverse this, when you get to a certain salary level, most of the over-excess spending can be cut back without it impacting your lifestyle. And how you cut that back, you can go through it with a fine tooth comb and find out where is your money going. Do you realize you’re spending X amount of money on delivery food and you’re spending this on that and your holidays and your vacations, as you would call it, are being spent on this? If you just say, I get paid X amount per month, and before I do anything, I’m going take a chunk of that, and I’m going to put it into savings or I’m going to put it into my 401(k) or going to do something with it, I’m gonna take it out of my checking account because once I do that, and I have everything else covered, it’s only the stuff that’s left over in your checking account that you end up spending, and you will then end up being suffering with Parkinson’s Law or Lifestyle Creep. I think that’s really important that if you realize that if you do it immediately and you automate it and you take the money at the start, Lifestyle Creep doesn’t have anywhere to expand into.

[00:20:19] Julien: What kind of emotional roadblocks do you see most people have?

[00:20:23] Eoin: When it comes to money and what keeps people awake at night is uncertainty. It’s around what is next, what happens if inflation doesn’t get under control. It’s a huge problem throughout the world, but it’s the not knowing what’s next, and it’s not understanding how can I prepare today for the unknown future. And it can, it can really send you around in spins and circles. And like, even if you think about it in simple terms, if you’ve got cash and you’re sitting and you have it in your checking account or in your savings account, and I say to a client, everything called the five-year-rule. If you don’t need your money in the next five years, get it out of your checking account and get it into an investment account and whatever you’re doing, just get it somewhere where it’s working hard for you. And then people say, Oh, but what if I need it? What if I need? Well, have you needed it in the last 10 years? No, I haven’t. But what if I do in the next five? I can’t afford to put it away. I can afford to ride out the storms. And it’s the stuff they don’t know, they don’t know which is scaring them the most. There is people out there that are means that will say, I’m worrying doesn’t do anything. It doesn’t make the problems go away. But we do spend a huge amount of time worried about stuff that’s never going to happen. Now, this is a joke. And I just hope I translate probably said and 95 percent of the things I worry about never happen. You see, worrying works. The reality is, most of the stuff we worry about doesn’t happen. There’s so much stuff that consumes us and what I would say rents space in our head that we need to get out of there and it is a blockage when it comes to taking action, whether that action is financial or that action is some other part of your life.

[00:22:05] Julien: I want to close and maybe see if we can do a little bit of myth busting here. Is there a particular belief or a myth about money that you wish more people would just let go of?

[00:22:15] Eoin: Financial future is not predetermined. Now, more than ever, I strongly believe you can create your financial path, financial future, whatever way you want it to be. It’s interesting you talk about the difference between positive thinking and negative thinking, right? And if I say to you, if you think negative, negative things are going to happen. Most people will accept that outright. They would say, oh, yeah, no, I get that. But if I said to somebody, if you think positively, positive things are going to happen. Lots of people will challenge that, say no, they won’t, you can’t imagine a good future and you’re going to get it. But you’ll accept it on the opposite side, negative makes negative, but you won’t accept they’re equal and opposites. So therefore you believe in one, you have to believe in the other. What I love about money is it’s black and white. And what I mean by that is there’s a right answer and there’s wrong answer. But it’s also relative, it’s percentage based. Right, so we had somebody who won a lot of a lottery here last last week, won 250 million euros and a lot of a quarter of a billion, here it’s tax free by the way, right. They won a quarter of a billion, biggest win ever. And the investment advice that person should be getting with 250 million is the same investment advice you should be getting with your 250 dollars because math makes it equal. And that’s one of the myths we need to get over that, oh, it’s only good for the rich or it’s no good for me because I’m not at that level. It’s math and it’s agnostic to what the number actually is because it’s percentage based, and it is either black or white, it is right or it is wrong. That’s it.

[00:23:53] Julien: I really enjoyed this conversation with Eoin, and I especially loved that he shared some deeply personal aspects of his life.

[00:24:00] Kiersten: I really enjoyed that you shared some things as well. You talked about how you used to prioritize concert tickets and now those things aren’t as important to you. And it made me think, do I have anything in my life that way? And it’s actually the opposite. There are things that I didn’t use to prioritize that I do now, like sleep. Like I will spend more money to ensure that I get a good night’s sleep. I have a sturdy sleep routine at home. Any sort of product or pillowcase or sheet set, a cooling fan, all of that stuff is going to hit the cart versus in the past like when I was in my 20s I could sleep on a hay, like a pile of hay. It did not matter where I slept. I could sleep sitting up and now I actually, I need that comfort.

[00:24:45] Julien: Yeah, and it just goes to show, just as Eoin outlined in our conversation, as you change, your values change and those things affect the way that you spend your money. There’s nothing wrong with that, but it is important to pay attention to that and making sure that you are adjusting along the way. Thanks for listening to Merging Into Life, brought to you by AAA Northeast. If you found this helpful, share it with a friend and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:25:13] Kiersten: The views and opinions expressed in this podcast do not constitute financial advice and are not necessarily the views of AAA Northeast, AAA, and or its affiliates.

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*The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are not necessarily the views of AAA Northeast, AAA and/or its affiliates.

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EPISODE SUMMARY

Buy now, pay later (BNPL) tools may feel convenient, but are they helping or hurting your financial future? In this episode of Merging Into Life, hosts Julien and Kiersten sit down with credit expert William Black to explore the pros and cons of BNPL and how new forms of consumer credit are reshaping our approach to debt management. From interest-free offers to BNPL’s sneaky impact on credit score, they unpack what makes these services different from traditional loans and why “frictionless” spending might be more dangerous than it seems. For anyone navigating student loans, car payments or just trying to understand modern credit, this episode is a crucial lesson in financial literacy for young adults.

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KEY TAKEAWAYS

• Understanding how buy now, pay later works. It isn’t always free. Understanding interest rates (even hidden ones) is key.
• New credit reporting rules mean real consequences. Missed BNPL payments can now impact your credit score, even if the purchase was small.
• With multiple due dates tied to different purchases, effective debt management becomes harder, making it easy to lose track and fall behind.
• Building credit wisely starts early. Establishing good habits like paying on time and staying organized builds your credit profile and future borrowing power.
• If you’re struggling, don’t go silent. Negotiating with creditors is possible, and reaching out can lead to support, not punishment

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TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:03] Julien: I hate to tell his business, but one of my closest friends was struggling to get a mortgage a few years ago. He finally was able to get it done. But as he was telling me some of the challenges that he was having, as it related to his credit score, I could not help but to recall so many of the issues that he had even when he was younger. Like he completely disregarded credit, and he wouldn’t pay his credit card bills, he wouldn’t pay his cellphone bills, back in the day. And, so, all of those little things, like when we were in our 20s, were definitely catching up to him.

[00:00:34] Kiersten: There are not many lessons in life that you have to learn the hard way, but I feel like credit kind of falls in there because it’s such a foreign concept. I was the same way. I understood it, intellectually. I knew I was supposed to follow these rules, pay on time. I did not fully understand how the consequences would ripple through every other decision for as long as they did. And so I was loose. I was reckless. I didn’t have a system. And I learned that lesson the hard ways. Things got very expensive very quickly.

[00:01:10] Julien: Hey everyone, welcome back to Merging into Life, the podcast where we’re helping you navigate real life moments with smarter financial choices, brought to you by AAA Northeast. I’m Julian. And I’m Kirsten.

[00:01:20] Kiersten: If you’ve been following this season, you know we’ve talked a lot about the emotional side of money, how it shows up in relationships, and how it affects the way we spend. Today, we’re looking at something that sits right at the intersection of emotion, convenience and risk. Buy now, pay later.

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[00:01:35] Julien: If you’ve ever clicked pay in four at checkout or seen those little pop-ups offering interest-free payments, that’s BNPL, buy now pay later. And while it seems simple, there’s a lot going on behind the scenes, especially now with new credit reporting rules that could affect your score, even if you’re only splitting up a $40 hoodie. But it’s not just hoodies. This connects to the bigger financial choices we all make. Financing a car, taking student loans, buying a home or choosing credit over cash. These decisions carry weight, both practically and emotionally.

[00:02:06] Kiersten: We’re also going to look at how credit works and how it shapes the way that we think about money.

[00:02:10] Julien: Buy now, pay later isn’t really new, people have been using their credit cards to purchase products that they need to pay back later for a long time. So I’m looking forward to really digging into this discussion.

[00:02:20] Kiersten: We’re joined by William Black, a former managing director at Moody’s and someone with plenty of experience analyzing how loans work in the real world. So if you’ve ever wondered whether buying now and paying later is a smart choice or a slippery slope, this one is for you.

[00:02:39] Kiersten: Will, thank you for joining us. We gave a little bit of your bio, but if you want to give us some background on who you are and what you focus on, it would be great to start us off there.

[00:02:49] Will: The bulk of my professional career has been focused nearly exclusively on consumer credit. So here we’re talking about autos, credit cards, student loans and mortgages, where we focused on those asset, what we called asset classes, those consumer asset classes as they served as collateral or assets backing securities that are issued into the capital markets. So in order to do that, my team and myself, we had to understand how these businesses operate at a very granular level. As we know, two-thirds of the GDP of the economy’s growth is generated from consumer spending, and a lot of that is done on consumer credit.

[00:03:32] Kiersten: Have you found an easy way to explain how credit and interest rates work to the average consumer?

[00:03:41] Will: Credit is a responsibility that if you’re going to participate in the economy as a consumer, certainly in the U.S., is something you don’t have to participate in credit … but it sure is a useful tool. And whether or not you use credit, and almost all of us do, remember I mentioned credit cards, student loans, autos. We’re going to talk about buy now, pay later, which is a subsector of what I think of as unsecured consumer credit, which is credit cards, generally speaking, and mortgages if you want to own a home.

[00:19:22] Julien: What is the best way to just start building and establishing credit?

[00:19:23] One is just you’ve got to be in it to start building credit quickly. If you’re not in it, meaning if you don’t have credit, you’re still building a credit profile, whether you realize it or not. You’re just probably not helping yourself, because assumptions will be taken about you if you’re obtaining credit by the powers that be. Credit bureaus are tracking things like: What kind of credit do you have? How well are you paying down on that credit? How well are you paying it back? Are you delinquent? No. 2: How much credit a lender is likely to grant. And, No. 3, the cost of that credit will be affected by how high that credit score. The higher, the less chance you are going to default, the lower your APR or interest rate on that loan, which has major consequences. That’s some context I think is important to answer your question a little bit more directly. And that is, I mentioned, get in the ecosystem early, and you can do that somewhat safely. You’re not going to take out a mortgage when you’re a teenager, but what you might be able to get a buy now pay later when you’re buying something online. Just make sure that you pay it off on time. But you do, and once you or get a credit card, you might get what are called secured credit cards.

[00:05:42] Kiersten: I think very few people think about it like an ecosystem, like this critical part of our economy. There are all kinds of types of credit out there, whether we’re talking about credit cards, car loans, student debt, mortgages, and there are more things being invented along the way. I want to talk about buy now, pay later, because there’s a whole generation of people that will only know that as their primary loan or credit source. And I want to talk about what makes buy now, pay later or microloans different, and in some ways, more complicated than the traditional loans that we grew up on.

[00:06:18] Will: You’re right, buy now, pay later has been coming on the credit scene kind of fast and furious. They’re in the headlines. They’re getting a lot of attention. They’re relatively new, and they’re also relatively small. Let me put it into context. I mentioned earlier the main categories of consumer credit. Mortgages being the largest. I’m going to throw some numbers at you, but I’ll try to keep it simple. [There’s] about $13 trillion worth of mortgage, residential mortgage debt, outstanding in the country today. OK. Autos and student loans, 1.6 trillion each, each, outstanding. And credit cards as a category are about, I think, $1.2 trillion of credit card receivables outstanding, balances outstanding. Snapshot. BNPL is as best as I can determine, about $120 billion. It’s about 10% of just of just credit cards. So again, it’s been growing very, very fast. And that’s when we see a high rate of growth attached and you’re seeing new players who are very good at getting attention for their growth. They’re in the FinTech space and there’s a lot of attention given to FinTech. They’re growing fast. I would say that one of the things that BNPL does, they do a few things differently then let’s just compare them to credit cards. They’re both unsecured credit, meaning there’s no collateral backing it. They can’t take anything away after you bought it. Not like a car, like if you don’t pay back your car in 90 days, you’re late 90 days, they’re going to take your car back. So, it’s in that category of, of a loan, same as a credit card. No. 1, where they’re very different and where they were very successful, BNPL companies in general vs. a credit card, is that they were very good at becoming digitally native in the e-commerce ecosystem. That’s No. 1. The other thing that they did very well and are doing very well is they offer a product that is appealing in that it’s advertised as interest-free. Well, that sounds, that’s sounds awesome. Who, who doesn’t want an interest-free loan? And, of course, you and I know nothing is for free. Somebody is profiting from this arrangement, and it’s probably not you. Maybe that’s a bit of a cheap shot, because we can have a conversation and a debate about who’s truly paying for the cost of money, but we can agree that there is a cost to the time value of any loan. And that’s what this is. So who’s paying for that? You can make the argument, well, I’m not paying an interest rate. There’s no interest associated with my BNPL. So I’m paying any interest. That is true, nominally, but somebody’s paying for the time value of that money. And if it’s the lender, then they’re gonna get their chunk of change from the merchant. And the merchant is going to try to preserve their margins on what they’re selling. So, they’re going to charge you more for whatever they’re selling, maybe not you individually more, but they’re going to have to charge more to someone. It’s like squeezing a balloon, right? That, that air is going go somewhere.

[00:09:39] Kiersten: Let’s be real. Student loans can be one of the toughest topics for couples to navigate. Whether you’re paying them off, taking them on for a child or just trying to understand your options, it helps to have support. AAA offers access to student loan counseling and refinancing solutions designed to help members feel more in control of their financial future. Whether it’s guidance or a lower rate you’re after, we’re here to help. To explore your options visit AAA.com/studentloans. Services are available to AAA Northeast members. Availability and benefits may vary by club.

[00:10:14] Julien: I also remember one of the other things that made it very appealing when it started to roll out, what feels like a few years ago, was that it was not originally being reported on your credit report until recently, there’s been some news that now that is no longer the case.

[00:10:33] Will: I write a newsletter called Consumer Credit Matters that’s available on LinkedIn. And I wrote an article about this event very recently. So, you’re right to point out that, initially, whatever performance you did, good or bad, if you paid back your BNPL as on time or whether you defaulted on that BNPL, that credit behavior was not reported to what I mentioned earlier, the bureaus. And, therefore, did not then affect your score. This was causing some friction among the participants. This is a two double-edged sword, right? If you’re a good borrower and using BNPL, and they’re not being reported to the bureaus, you’re not helping your future self build a good credit bureau file and open doors for you down the road. But if you’re not a good borrower, that is, you can kind of escape that ecosystem without any penalty. That has now changed very recently that they will be working with at least some of those BNPL players and developing a statistical way of capturing that data.

[00:11:46] Kiersten: With these BNPLs, it’s like the due date is based on when the purchase was made. And so, the likelihood that you might miss a payment, not because you’re irresponsible, just because you have so many of them is a lot higher.

[00:11:57] Will: The thing you mentioned is an absolutely true truism of BNPL and how it differentiates itself from credit cards. And it makes it more difficult for the best organized among us to keep up with all these bills coming in throughout the month, as opposed to basically every other form of credit that I mentioned. Where you’re getting one bill a month. And often you can have those taken out of your checking account or your saving, whatever account on an automated basis. BNPL hasn’t been as easy. And by the way, it’s partly due to the fact that it started out as this is going to help you pay for this discretionary purchase that has a bigger ticket item than normal and compartmentalize it. And pay, I think, conceptually, in the early years, it was like, I’m going to buy this one thing that’s a little bit expensive, maybe a piece of furniture or something. And I and I get to pay it over four months instead of one month without any interest. That’s that was the thinking. Very attractive, right? And then, it turned into like being really pproliferated, and they’re ever present. And it’s awfully easy and tempting to hit the same button when you’re now maybe even checking out for groceries. Maybe you’re using for nondiscretionary purchases now. That is something that is happening. And yeah, you need to keep on top of it. You miss a payment, it’s going to hurt your credit score. Now how much, I don’t know. But it’s certainly it’s going to be immediate.

[00:13:27] Julien: What’s one thing that you do know for sure that you really just wish every young borrower knew about credit, whether it’s student loans, buying a car or buying now, pay later, what’s the one thing you just really wish every one of them knew?

[00:13:42] Will: You may not appreciate it when you start out, but credit is, as we started with this conversation, it’s a very important dimension of participating for most people. The vast majority of people, when you’re just starting out, it is and will and/or will be a very important dimension of participating in the economy. I guess it’s pretty simple. Pay back your debts on time. And don’t get in over your head. By the way, we should spend a little bit of time talking about getting in over your head, because bad things happen to good people. So, unemployment, health emergencies and divorce, I think are the top three reasons for people falling down in terms of their financial responsibilities. My advice to people there would be don’t go dark with your creditors. As difficult as it may be, get on the phone, or whatever your mode of communication is, with your lender and tell them what you’re going through, and tell them that you need help, and try to work something out. Most lenders, nowadays especially, will listen and offer you something, some forbearance, it depends on your circumstances and how you can substantiate it. So, don’t try to just turtle up, as the expression goes, and hope that this dark cloud will pass and that somehow people won’t catch up to you. Your debts are going to be, if you owe you something, those, those guys are not going to forget about it. I mean, you’re hearing about this in student loans now, right? I mean, I know this is a bit of a tangent, but it’s a good example. You owe a student loan to the federal government. They will come after you in Social Security years and garnish your Social Security if you owe them money. So you can run, but you cannot hide. And maybe you can run for many years, but you cannot hide.

[00:15:45] Julien: So I can’t just move to Belize, start an Airbnb and escape?

[00:15:48] Will: Maybe Belize might be an option. That might be an option. I’m not so sure how long the arms are, but I wouldn’t test it.

[00:15:57] Julien: I’d love to hear a little bit about your podcast.

[00:16:00] Will: I have a newsletter and a podcast. The newsletters, they go by the same name. They’re both called Consumer Credit Matters. And they’re just a platform for me to either discuss with, in the case of podcasts, discuss with market leaders in the world of consumer credit. And so that gives me a platform to either write about or talk about those types of events. Been fun, thanks for asking.

[00:16:24] Julien: No, thank you. Really appreciate you sharing your wealth of knowledge and understanding and experience on credit with us. And I’m sure all the listeners out there learn something as well.

[00:16:35] Will: Well, appreciate that. It was a wonderful conversation. Thank you so much for having me.

[00:16:42] Julien: You know, I really don’t want to demonize buy now, pay later. It does serve a purpose, but it’s really hard to not see it that way, when you know people are doing it to break up a $8 burrito into three different payments. Like I can understand it if we’re talking about a vacation or if in a case of an emergency. But when you start to see little things and kind of a flippant approach to it, I think that’s where the concern comes in.

[00:17:06] Kiersten: Yeah, my cousins, my younger cousins, almost treat it like a hack. Like it’s something that they know and that like we weren’t allowed to do when we were growing up. And they use it for everything. I think probably the craziest thing that I’ve heard that they use it for is gas. Did you know you could buy your gas now and pay for it later?

[00:17:22] Julien: I didn’t, but I’m not surprised.

[00:17:23] Kiersten: I was like, we used to just not go. Like if we didn’t have gas, we just weren’t going. And then, with all the options that you have between Uber and scooters, I just feel like there’s another alternative to breaking up a quarter tank into four different payments.

[00:17:37] Julien: Yeah, we used to ask for gas money, but I guess you don’t really need to do that if you got buy now, pay later. I love how these three episodes are really kind of connected in a way.

[00:17:48] Kiersten: Yeah, I was thinking about this the other night, and I realized the through line here is: the more invisible money becomes — like Fintech has this thing where they call it frictionless spending, you don’t have to touch physical paper or coins — the more visible money becomes, the more you actually have to think about it. And I don’t think we’ve caught up to that. In all three of our discussions, we’ve talked about the consciousness of money. How you have to think about how you feel before you spend it. How you think about your future purchasing decisions before you select buy now, pay later. And I don’t know that we’re used to doing that because before when it was physical it would just be gone. Like it was just subtraction, and now, it’s got like this calculus and algebra layer, the statistics layer, that is really advanced, and it changes the way that we should be teaching financial literacy and thinking about financial literacy.

[00:18:42] Julien: Yeah, it definitely feels like things are moving a lot faster, and we’re all kind of struggling to keep up with it. Big thanks to William for demystifying the world of credit and reminding us that even small financial decisions can leave a lasting impact.

[00:18:55] Kiersten: If this episode helped you rethink your own approach to borrowing, share it, leave a review, and don’t forget to subscribe on Apple, Spotify or wherever you listen. We’ll see you next time on Merging Into Life.

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast do not constitute financial advice and are not necessarily the views of AAA Northeast, AAA, and/or its affiliates.

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RESOURCES

Merging Into Life Homepage

William Black | Consumer Credit Matters Newsletter

AAA Student Loans

Merging Into Life, S1E7: Buying Your First Home

Merging Into Life, S1E19: How to Choose Your First Credit Card

How to Build Your Credit Score

How to Pre-Qualify for an Auto Loan

AAA Answers All Your Student Lending Questions

New Era for College Borrowing

How to Consolidate Student Loans

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*The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are not necessarily the views of AAA Northeast, AAA and/or its affiliates.

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EPISODE SUMMARY

What if adventure wasn’t something you had to fly across the world for, but instead something you could find right in your own backyard?

In this episode, our host Kim Rodrigues is joined by Mikah Meyer who visited all 419 U.S. National Park Service sites in one continuous journey to redefine what adventure travel can look like. They dive into everything from beginner adventure travel tips to what it means to chase joy now, not someday.

Whether you’re curious about planning your first national park trip or just want to find small ways to break out of your routine, this episode is your sign to start packing your bags!

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KEY TAKEAWAYS

• Adventure travel isn’t one-size-fits-all. It’s not about climbing the tallest mountain or checking off countries. It’s about being curious, stepping outside your routine and doing something just for you, even if it’s just exploring your local park or planning a food tour in the next town over.
• Beginner-friendly travel is real. If you’re new to hiking, glamping or national parks, start small. Pick one place or an interest and let that guide your trip.
• The visitor center is your secret weapon. Before you hit the trail, stop by the park’s visitor center. Rangers can give you real-time advice, trail conditions and tailor a route to your comfort level and interests.
• Take the trip and don’t wait. We often delay joy for someday, but Mikah’s story reminds us that life is unpredictable, and the time to start living your travel dreams is now.
• Lead with intention, not fear. Travel can help transform your mindset from focusing on fear of the unknown to a deep appreciation for the present, and that shift can change everything.

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TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:05] Kim: Life is a lot sometimes, and I know for me when I feel like I have too many responsibilities and I have too many things going on, my calendar is too full, that’s usually when I want to take a solo trip. When I just want to take a step back, go somewhere, explore a different city, be around completely different people. It’s almost like jumping from one life into another life just being able to be free from that responsibility. I can do something for me, not feel so overwhelmed, have that step back, and then, I can go back to my responsibility-filled life. Welcome back to Merging Into Life, a podcast by AAA Northeast here to help you navigate through smarter, more intentional choices. I’m your host for the travel series, Kim Rodrigues. Adventure travel means different things to different people. For some people it’s going to the furthest land and experiencing a completely different culture. For me, lately, it’s been about exploring my own backyard. I’m currently on a mission to explore all 50 states. This is something that, as an avid traveler, I’ve never done before, but I’m really excited to hear all about what our country has to offer. And there’s no better way to explore that than by talking to our next guest who has explored all 419 national parks. Mikah Meyer is a speaker, filmmaker and the first person to visit every single national park service site in one continuous journey. Mikah’s focus continues to be travel beyond convention and using his expertise to engender others’ dreams. Thank you so much for joining me, Mikah.

[00:01:50] Mikah: It’s a pleasure. Thanks for having me.

[00:01:51] Kim: So, I’d love to start by just learning a bit more about what initially drew you to the outdoors. I know that you went to college for singing, and you’re like, you’re a classically trained vocalist. I’m so curious about how you made that transition and what made you decide to pursue like a vocation around traveling and embracing the outdoors? I know you started in Nebraska, but tell me more.

[00:02:14] Mikah: I like talking about Nebraska, because I think, so often when we think of outdoor adventures, we imagine the mountains of Colorado or people who grew up in Seattle and went camping every weekend. And that was not my reality. Like my mom was a teacher, a music teacher, and my dad was a pastor. And, so, he worked on Sundays. And, so, we did not do the weekend camping trip. I was not part of the Boy Scouts. Like I grew up with three older sisters who all did dance team and musical theater. And whenever the like high school theater show needed a kid, like I was the one to play the part. And I say all that in the sense of I think many of us can feel like the outdoors is not for us or that we’re not that type of person because of our backgrounds. And I hope if anything, that my background shows that that is just completely bunk. Because I come from one of the flattest states in the country. I have two degrees in classical singing, and yet I set a world record when it comes to the outdoors. So, if it’s possible for me to get out there and do this with my background, then I think really anybody, wherever you are, no matter how you grew up, you have the ability and the expertise to go out and enjoy our nature.

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[00:03:21] Kim: How did you go from being so green to now being someone who holds a record for visiting every single national park? That’s huge. What inspired you to do that?

[00:03:33] Mikah: Yeah, well, my dad passed away before he got to retire. He was 58, and I was 19. And I kind of was on this path of like you go to school, you work hard, you get good grades, and then you go to college, you get a good job. And then once you do that job, and you work your whole life, then when you turn 65, you get to retire and rent an RV and go to all these amazing places and do all this stuff. And it’s the payoff for a life’s worth of hard work. And when I saw my dad passed away at 58, he sort of suddenly got cancer out of nowhere, and after a three-year battle, he passed. And it just shook that, that sort of timeline for me. And it showed me, oh, you can do everything right. Like my dad was an award-winning campus minister. At one point, he had the largest Lutheran campus ministry in America. So, like he did everything right, and yet, he didn’t get that payoff. And so that, at age 19, really shook me, and my dad was a big fan of road trips. And so, a few weeks after his funeral, I got in his car, and I took my first ever independent road trip. And his sunflower seeds were still on the floor. It still smelled like his pipe. And I had an old-school atlas. This was like pre-cellphone GPS. And I took my first ever road trip, because I just thought I wanted to do something to honor him and connect with him. And then, that first road trip was so moving for me and so helpful and healing to get over his passing that I ended up doing one every year from then on around the time of his passing, April 29. And that’s kind of what inspired this world record journey is, every year, I did that, and I just learned more and more about how precious life is. And I really made it a goal that, when I turned 30, I was going to do one of my retirement goals to honor my dad.

[00:05:31] Kim: That’s incredible. So from your days when you were on the road constantly, did you ever have a moment where you just stopped and thought, I can’t believe this is happening. I can’t believe this was my life right now.

[00:05:45] Mikah: Yeah. I mean, I think one of the most amazing parts of that three-year journey was: There is a national park service site that more people climb Mount Everest every year than visit this national park service site. It’s actually the least-visited park service site in the entire system. And it’s on the Aleutian Island range of Alaska. So, sort of those islands that make their way — if you know where Anchorage is on a map and you head west — they kind of lead towards Russia. And so, it’s way out in the Aleutian Islands. It’s a super volatile place as far as weather, like they’re, you, you never really know what you’re going to get, which is why it’s so hard to reach. And to reach this national park service site, they recommend you have a week of waiting for like a three-hour window, because you need to have the weather be good enough in the town of King Salmon to take off in like a little sea plane, you need to have the weather be good enough in Aniakchak National Monument & Preserve, the park service site. And then the weather for like the hourlong flight in between has to be good. And so, getting there is just, it takes an amount of time, perseverance and luck. And I had only scheduled five days to reach Aniakchak as part of my whole three-year journey where everything was scheduled down to the day. And on that fifth day, the weather was not good enough. And I was just like, oh my gosh, it’s going to throw off months of plans. Like, I’m doomed. The pilot said we can try to take off, we can try to make it happen. I can’t guarantee anything. By the way, you have to pay us the $5,000 that it costs to rent this private plane, whether or not we make it into the park. And we ended up making it into the park. The pilot, he landed in the park, and he goes, “that’s the first time I’ve ever done this.” And we’re all like, “thanks for telling us after you landed.” So, that was one of those moments where you’re just like, I’m standing in a place that so few humans have ever stood, and we’re here right now, and like it’s not storming, and we think we’re going to make it back out alive.

[00:07:46] Kim: Wow, thank you for sharing that.

[00:07:48] Mikah: Yeah, it was a magical, magical moment. If people go to my website and go to my blog, there’s a whole blog that I write about it. And I made a video, and I interviewed all of us in the plane ahead of time. Like, do you think we’re going to make it? And I interviewed us afterwards. And it’s so funny to see people’s faces because you can just see like how much relaxed they are afterwards, having made it.

[00:08:09] Kim: Seeing that you’ve been through so many adventures, and especially with this epic adventure, how would you say, I mean, obviously you’re continuing with your travels, how would say the idea of adventure has evolved and changed for you?

[00:08:25] Mikah: Maybe, unless you grew up in Manhattan or LA, like, maybe you feel this way, but I always felt like there was way more out there in the world than my hometown could offer. And so, I sort of grew up with this like burning desire to just go everywhere and see everything and meet everyone. And I wanted to go to every location on the planet Earth and just experience everything. Sort of the older I get, I’m a little more selective now with my adventures. You go to enough cathedrals in Europe, or you go to enough museums in South America, or etc., etc. You start to see similarities. Not to say that every place isn’t special in its own way. Before you travel and see so much of the world, you have these ideas about how magical everywhere is going to be. For me, it’s more about intention of where I’m going. Rather than saying, I just want to check this country off my list or this state off my list. I try to pick an event that I know I’ll really enjoy, or a convention where I know I’ll meet people who have similar interests as me. And to me, that’s kind of more exciting, building my adventures now around people and around hobbies and interests, as opposed to just wanting to say, I physically covered every corner of the map.

[00:09:45] Kim: Let’s say that there’s someone out there who wants to start having more adventures, wants to start taking charge of their life. What would you say are some myths or misconceptions that you hear often about enjoying outdoor travel?

[00:10:01] Mikah: I’ve met so many people over the years from every walk of life. And to some people, enjoying the outdoors is a family reunion and a cookout. And they go to a state park and the kids are running around and playing with twigs and digging in the dirt and looking at ants. And to other people, it’s hiking a 14-er in Colorado, and both experiences are just as valid. So definitely don’t take yourself out of the race before you start. And don’t discount your interests just because they might feel simple. I live in Minneapolis, which has one of the best city park systems in the country. They say 97 percent of Minneapolis live within a 10 minute walk of a city park. And so I really love enjoying my city parks. There are so many ways to experience outdoor adventure beyond just the stuff you see in ads.

[00:10:51] Kim: I think sometimes one of the biggest challenges that people have when they’re planning trips, and you touched on this a bit earlier, is the myth of later, right? I think a lot of people also feel really guilty for taking time off work, and they feel like they’re never fully ready. How can we shift our mindset to start making space for these kinds of experiences?

[00:11:13] Mikah: It’s tough to anybody who is listening to this who feels that way. Like, I get it. I mean, we kind of live, we live in a culture where we’re sort of conditioned to work. It’s like you get a car payment or a house payment or student loans and you’ve got debt and you’re like, I have to work, I think, especially in the U.S. we are really conditioned to build our life around our job, and as I’ve traveled to other countries, they kind of laugh at us, and they’re like why don’t you take your vacation, or like of course you should take a vacation because then you will be well rested and you won’t burn out. I think it’s just it’s acknowledging that, and saying you know what I know there’s a lot of pressure but like the Earth will still keep spinning if I take a three-day weekend or the Earth will keep spinning. If I set an out of office for five days the more you do it, the less scary it becomes and then it’s easier to take your vacation days that you’ve been earned or that you earned or been promised or a part of your compensation.

[00:12:12] Kim: Whether you’re chasing fall foliage, stargazing in the mountains, or setting up camp by the lake, your ride matters. AAA members save up to 20 percent off the base rate of all rentals with Hertz. So you can get that extra rugged SUV for your next off-road adventure. So, what are you waiting for? Check out www.AAA.com/Hertz and get going.

[00:12:37] Kim: What are some of the benefits that you have discovered by saying yes to something that initially felt, but maybe you were a little apprehensive or you were intimidated. I’m sure traveling to all 419 national parks was intimidating. What are some of the lessons that you’ve learned and some of benefits that you gained from pushing yourself?

[00:12:55] Mikah: I think, too often, we are motivated more by fear in all aspects of our life. Fear of what could go wrong, fear of what we might say, fear of something that could happen, and we don’t lead by love. We don’t lead with the assumption that everything will work out, that we will have a beautiful experience, that we will say the right thing. And so, what I love about travel is that it’s really helped me overcome that sort of fear of the unknown or fear of others that I think we’re just like evolutionarily made to have. And so, I think a great way to overcome that is to start small. Maybe start out with London, because it’s a foreign country. They have a different currency, but they still speak English. And so, go on a London tour first. And then you realize, OK, I can handle this. So then maybe the next trip you do Paris. And it’s a different language, but you’ve already gotten over those fears of those other things. And then maybe the next trip is Morocco. And so, by taking these baby steps, you can really start to conquer some big adventures, and they don’t become fearful anymore.

[00:14:03] Kim: I love that. Would you say that starting small would be a good place for someone, like, let’s say, someone who doesn’t have a lot of PTO or they only have their weekends to work with, along with starting small, how would you recommend that they start exploring?

[00:14:18] Mikah: I always advocate traveling based on your hobbies and interests. So pickleball is becoming a really big thing. I love pickleball. I was recently looking at a tournament in Columbus, Ohio, that was a pickleball tournament. And so, I think it’s a great thing to look at your hobbies, and say, I really like doing blank. Is there a gathering or a convention or a tournament or something around my interests, because then you go to those places, and you get to meet people who share your hobbies, and that opens up the location in a whole new way and just makes you way more comfortable. So, I would definitely look at your interests first. And when it comes to national parks, actually the cool thing is that every single U.S. state and territory has at least one national park service site.

[00:15:07] Kim: While we’re on the topic of national parks, what are the few national park sites that are in the northeast that people may not know about, but you feel like they’re totally worth visiting?

[00:15:18] Mikah: Yeah, there’s so many, actually, the Northeast with National Park Service sites. And I think a lot of people when they hear national parks, they instantly think Grand Canyon, Death Valley, Mount Rainier, these big parks out west. And actually, our National Park service manages lots of different sites. Like the Thomas Edison National Historical Park is in Northern New Jersey. That’s a really cool examination of like all of the inventions he had and all the impacts he had on American culture. You can go to the home of Teddy Roosevelt. His house is like full of all the animals that he killed on his safaris. And so, it’s kind of like going into a Jumanji game as you go into his house. That’s out on Long Island. There are sites like in Massachusetts, Cape Cod National Seashore is super beautiful. And you can pair that with a trip to Provincetown. So many people take the ferry out from Boston, but you can actually drive out that way to Provincetown, so you can go to all these spots along the seashore as you’re heading up there. There’s also some really quirky sites, like the New Bedford Whaling National Historical Park. That’s all about the history of whaling in America, and sort of our earlier years as a country, when the physical whale was used for a lot of products that we now don’t use whales for. There is the African Burial Ground National Monument, which is in in lower Manhattan, like surrounded.

[00:16:44] Kim: I’ve been to that one. Yeah, it’s really cool.

[00:16:46] Mikah: Really?

[00:16:47] Kim: Yeah. Yeah. That’s really, really cool.

[00:16:48] Mikah: Well, how’d you find out about it?

[00:16:49] Kim: I think I found out about it through a Google search, but I have been, yet all the way down in lower Manhattan, and it’s it’s really awesome.

[00:16:58] Mikah: Yeah, there’s actually a ton in the New York City area, like a dozen basically, and even things like Hamilton’s house. It’s on the northern edge of Manhattan. It used to be when he was alive, it was like the country. But Hamilton Grange, you can go to his house. And so, when I was in New York and saw “Hamilton” the musical, that day, before I saw the show, I went to the Hamilton Grange National Park Service site. And it just added so much to seeing the musical. So, I think there are a lot of fun things you can do when you’re traveling. Maybe you’re doing stuff that’s like a modern tourist popular event, and there’s a National Park Service site nearby that probably somehow ties into it.

[00:17:37] Kim: Yeah, I love that idea, too, of integrating it, being able to integrate a national park into what you’re already doing. For any newbie travel outdoors or anyone that’s new to just national parks in general, are there any go-to tips that you have maybe regarding gear or just practical tips that you had for people?

[00:17:58] Mikah: Yeah. So the No. 1 piece of advice I give people when they’re visiting a National Park Service site is, so often, you can drive into these parks, and so, people drive up, they pay their entry fee or they show their parks pass, they get the map from the ranger and they immediately drive to like the trail head they’ve been thinking about or to the location they’ve been wanting to go to. And I always say that’s the absolutely wrong thing to do. The first thing you should do is go to the visitor center, because at every visitor center, they’re either going to have a park ranger, or they’ll have a volunteer. And I always go talk to them because number one, there’s often trail closures, and you might drive 20 miles into the park, find out it’s closed, and then you wasted an hour of driving. So, I always talk to him to find out like today, what are the conditions? What are the things we need to know about? But then what I love to do is I will tell volunteer or the park ranger these are the things that really interest me. Maybe you say, hey, I’ve got some mobility issues, and I really like hikes that are one mile total, but I really liked loop hikes instead of out and back. And these people are going be able to basically design a custom itinerary for you on the spot. So, these are experts who can craft you a bespoke custom vacation with a snap of a finger. So don’t skip the visitor center and just go to what you think you need to go to. Always talk to the local experts.

[00:19:26] Kim: So before we go, can you share a little bit more about what’s coming up next for you. I think you have another documentary in the works. Can you tell us a little bit more about that?

[00:19:35] Mikah: I do. Yeah. For anyone listening right now, you can go online and type in “Canyon Chorus.” And that is the name of my current short film that is touring the world right now with the Banff Mountain Centre Film Festival Tour. So basically, one of the largest outdoor film festivals in the world has deemed my film was 1of the best 30 outdoor films of the year. And it’s only 16 minutes. And so, I tell people that it’s kind of like a Ted Lasso episode, like, you’ll both laugh and you’ll cry. But get on YouTube and type in “Canyon Chorus” or go to my website, mikahmeyer.com. You can watch it there for free as well. Based on the success of that short film, I’m working on a feature length documentary, which is called “Wild Goose Chase,” which is all about that three-year journey I did to every National Park Service site told through the story of a wild Canadagoose that followed me for four days and three nights. And many people believe that this goose was the spirit of my father, because geese are the most symbolic and important animal in Lutheranism. So, a lot of folk have heard the story of George the Goose and are convinced that it was my dad coming back to find a way to join me on this national park journey.

[00:20:48] Kim: That’s awesome. Thank you so much, Mikah, for joining me. This was a really awesome conversation.

[00:20:53] Mikah: It’s a pleasure.

[00:20:56] Kim: Big thanks to Mikah for joining me on the podcast. I’ve learned so much from our conversation. I couldn’t relate more to just being present in the moment and knowing that adventure travel is whatever you want it to be. You don’t have to go across the globe. You can still explore something new, even if it’s in your own backyard. Thanks for listening to Merging Into Life. Be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode with someone who could use a little encouragement to start their own journey.

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are not necessarily the views of AAA Northeast, AAA and/or its affiliates.

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RESOURCES

Merging Into Life Homepage

Save on Hertz Car Rentals

Merging Into Life, S1EP13: Solo Travel Guide

Northeast Camping and Hiking Guide

National Park Passport Guide

National Parks in the Northeast: A World Apart

K.Rod Collective

Mikah Meyer

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Want to Learn More? Drop Us a Note

*The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are not necessarily the views of AAA Northeast, AAA and/or its affiliates.

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EPISODE SUMMARY

Family trips are often less about the destination and more about the connections you forge along the way. In this episode of Merging Into Life, host Kim Rodrigues chats with Nik Kennett of the popular YouTube travel duo Away Together, to discuss the ins and outs of family travel.

Nik shares his experiences with multigenerational travel planning, from his spontaneous travels as a newlywed to orchestrating his parents’ 40th anniversary celebration with a toddler in tow. He offers practical advice for making family vacations more affordable, less stressful and truly memorable.

Together, Kim and Nik discuss leveraging travel points and miles, setting realistic expectations for everyone involved and how traveling with kids — while challenging — can be one of the most rewarding ways to create lasting bonds across generations.

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KEY TAKEAWAYS

• Don’t wait for the perfect time to travel with kids. Embrace the chaos; those “imperfect” moments often become the best memories.
• Pace matters! Family vacation planning is all about building in downtime, planning around naps and bedtimes and being OK with seeing fewer attractions.
• Many family-friendly destinations warmly welcome kids, often making the experience easier and more enjoyable than you might expect.
• Pack smart with tools like lists, packing cubes, laundry stops and a lightweight travel stroller to simplify your journey.
• Travel points and miles are a game changer. Using smart credit card strategies can save families thousands on flights and hotels.
• Remember the bigger picture. The goal isn’t a flawless trip — it’s creating shared experiences that become extraordinary chapters in your family’s multigenerational travel story.

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TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:04] Kim: Some of the best travel memories aren’t really about where you went. They’re about who you were with. It’s the laughter on the long car ride, the slow mornings with your family, the unexpected moments that turn into inside jokes. Family trips can be a little chaotic, sure, but they also give us the opportunity to spend time together, which is something that I have learned to appreciate a lot more recently. I once took a multigenerational trip that will forever stay in my memories. I went with a friend, her two small children, her husband and his parents to Italy. We went in a car. We had no plans. We were driving along, and we found this beautiful beach where we spent time in the water. It was interesting to see life through different lenses, because on one end, I remember when we were walking through the streets, and we ran into this really small parade. It was a street parade, and the 4-year-old thought that it was the coolest thing he had ever seen. He was so excited. And then, on the other hand, I was having many conversations with my friend’s father-in-law, who I think, at the time, must have been in his 60s, and he’s talking to me about his life and the lessons that he’s learned along the way. And I think all of it began to change my perspective on how I was seeing things and how I was seeing life at the time. So, it was interesting.

Hello, and welcome back to Merging Into Life, where we explore how to navigate all of life’s twists and turns with a little more intention and a lot more fun. I’m Kim, and today we’re talking about something that’s both extremely rewarding and a little chaotic: multigenerational travel. If you’ve ever tried to plan a vacation that works for kids, parents and grandparents, you know it’s no small feat. But when it works, it’s unforgettable. Today’s guest is Nik Kennett, one half of YouTube travel duo Away Together, who’s made it his mission to help people travel smarter, lighter and more meaningfully, even with their families in tow. Let’s dive in. Welcome, Nik.

[00:02:21] Nik: Hey Kimberly, so glad to be here.

[00:02:23] Kim: So you and your wife have been traveling together for some time now. So what sparked your love for travel?

[00:02:31] Nik: I think I was around age 15. I got to take a trip to Peru with my dad with this charity he was really involved with. So that was like my first glimpse into another culture. Hey, there’s people that look different than me that live different than me. I got to do a little bit of travel in college through like study abroad and things like that. When I met my wife, we were both getting our master’s degrees. She had never even been on an airplane before. And so, I was determined to kind of show her the world. And so early in our marriage, we started getting these cheap flight deals from email services. I found round-trip tickets from our little regional airport here in Arkansas to Milan, 450 bucks or something like that. And so, that was really where it started. And for us, travel just became like this shared purpose almost, just something we really enjoyed. And we quit our jobs to travel full time. We traveled full time for six months.

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[00:03:30] Kim: How has the shift been for traveling as a couple to now traveling with a child, with your daughter?

[00:03:37] Nik: When we decided to do that big, you know, crazy gap year, sabbatical thing, it was one of the motivations for me. It was like, you know, we’re in this window of time where we don’t have kids yet. Now’s our moment. But now that we have kids, the timing is never perfect. To anyone who thinks, “Oh, once I have kids I can’t travel nearly as much,” my big question would be: What’s holding you back? Because if it’s money, that is a separate kind of conversation, right? But if it’s, hey I’m dreading doing a long flight with a baby or a toddler. If it’s a travel safety kind of thing, I would say you might be creating problems in your mind that, don’t get me wrong, getting a toddler asleep on a long flight is such a fleeting short kind of part of the trip, and the attitude we’ve always tried to embrace is difficult things, trying times, things like that, those make way better memories and stories than when everything was perfect and comfy. We’ve had to make some adjustments traveling with kids, but it’s not been the scary, depressing, no fun kind of thing. I think a lot of people maybe make it out to be in their minds.

[00:04:57] Kim: I feel like what I hear you saying is that there is no perfect moment to travel with your kids, and you don’t necessarily have to wait until they’re older to do it.

[00:05:05] Nik: You know, the saying goes, life is hard, and the response is compared to what? I kind of think the same about traveling with kids. It’s like traveling with kids is so hard. And my response is, well, look, if you’re going to have to be changing diapers and wiping noses anyways, why not do it in Italy?

[00:05:25] Kim: I know that right now you’re currently planning a trip for your parents’ 40th anniversary, which is huge. What has it been like being in charge of the planning of big a multigenerational vacation? Like what’s been the biggest challenge that you’ve had so far in that?

[00:05:40] Nik: One of the challenges has simply been adapting to and understanding everyone’s tastes and preferences. I would say, you know, if someone finds themselves in a similar situation, where maybe they’re planning a multigenerational type of trip, getting on the same page about what is the type of trip everyone is wanting to take, is probably the hardest conversation to have. The immediate follow-up to that is what are everyone’s budget expectations, right? Because I came from the finding cheap flight deals via email world. My baby boomer parents have more money than me. Like they just do. And I think like a lot of people kind of my age would find themselves in a similar situation, so the tastes could be very different. And so, the challenge there is simply can we all take a trip we want to take at a budget we can all agree on?

[00:06:35] Kim: So, we were just talking about challenges. So, now I want to ask you, what is something unique or meaningful about traveling with multiple generations, especially when you’re trying, like you said, to make it work for younger kids, older kids, maybe grandparents as well?

[00:06:53] Nik: To get to see your own kids sort of experience something new and see it through their eyes how they react to it, that is, I think, the most powerful piece. So, more practically, for the grandparents, it’s simply just getting to spend more time with the kids and grandkids. I think, as you age, you just really start to think more about those things. And then, selfishly, pragmatically, for us young parents, honestly, just having an extra set of hands, like they say, many hands make light work, and it is so true. I am such a fan of group travel right now while we’ve got a rambunctious toddler.

[00:07:29] Kim: Yeah, it takes a village, right? I know that traveling with kids obviously changes the pace of your trip a little bit. So, what expectations do you think parents need to adjust to when they’re bringing kids or maybe even grandparents on a trip?

[00:07:47] Nik: I think the biggest adjustment for us has been, No. 1, expectations around attractions. We like to go to museums and try and absorb a lot of info while we’re in a place. It’s not the only thing we do, obviously. But the amount of time we can spend in a museum right now with a 2-year-old, way smaller than when we first started traveling. We’ve gone from, hey, as a couple, we’re going to like three or four different museums to maybe we’re going to one. Now we’re more likely to prioritize that kind of science museum that has some fun interactive stuff for kids. The other thing to think about is around nighttime, nightlife. If you have a kid with you, bedtime is going to come. And so that’s a big part of it. The other things we’ve had to build in is to accommodate for nap time. We’re typically planning to go back in the middle of the day to put our daughter down for a nap. In some of the group travel we’ve done with our daughter, I’ve had to kind of set those expectations with the others that are with us. The only other thing I’ll say on that is, which is quite a bit different than when it was just the two of us, is planning for downtime in general. If we’re taking a 10-day trip, instead of every single day, we’ve got this kind of itinerary, and we’re moving locations every two or three days, we’re trying to just build in more rest days generally, because she needs to be able to run around. We kind of need to be able to relax a little bit more.

[00:09:20] Kim: I wanted to briefly go back to expectations because you said something in one of your videos I thought was really interesting. And you were talking about how sometimes parents can have expectations and maybe some assumptions about a place regarding kids, but that may not be true.

[00:09:40] Nik: My mindset at least, and I think a lot of Americans, go in expecting that people are going to be annoyed you have your kid with you. That just really hasn’t been our experience. I have found most of the places we have been to be just as if not more family friendly than the U.S.A. And what I don’t mean is, oh, because they have way more playgrounds. I don’t mean that, those things are more child focused. What I mean, these places to me have felt more family focused and more like families were a priority. Even when we’re in a restaurant or something, a waiter going out of their way to bring our daughter a dessert on the house or something or try to make her smile. We had a couple of recent experiences. Portugal knocked our socks off in terms of like how kid and family friendly they are there. They love kids. We were in Sintra just outside of Lisbon. It was one of our last days of the trip. And there was just this absolute mob of people waiting to get on a bus. The bus driver saw us. We weren’t anywhere near the front. He parked his bus, got out of his seat, came to the back door of the bus, pulled us out of line and said, “you board first.” He closed the doors behind us. And then, he said, “families are a priority here.”

[00:11:02] Kim: It kind of also goes back to what we were saying about it takes a village and having community. And sometimes that is also people that you don’t know, just people living in that city or the community that already lives there can also be part of your village while you’re traveling.

[00:11:17] Nik: For sure, we met awesome people before we had kids while we were traveling, but I would say we’ve had way more of those kind of kindness of strangers sort of moments with our child. And this is the other reason why people shouldn’t be worried about traveling with kids. It’s one of those irrational fear kind of things. Our species makes children all over the world. You know, there are kids everywhere. If you run out of diapers, you’re going to be able to go get them at the grocery store. It’s the most relatable thing on planet Earth, seeing a parent with their child.

[00:11:55] Kim: Whether you’re heading to the beach, the mountains, or a city escape, your family vacation deserves to be stress-free. Focus on making memories, not managing mishaps. AAA members can purchase Allianz Travel Insurance and get 24-hour multilingual emergency assistance to replace lost tickets and travel documents, help you get access to cash in an emergency or aid during medical and legal emergencies. Visit AAA.com/TravelInsurance for peace of mind for you and your family.

So, let’s talk about some practical tips. When you’re planning a multigenerational trip, where do you suggest someone starting? Should they start with the budget, destination, accommodation?

[00:12:38] Nik: The first place I would start, 100 percent, is aligning on where to go. A common mistake I see when it comes to Europe travel specifically, trying to cram too many destinations in. And there’s that mindset of, well, we’re already taking that long flight. We’re already over there. Why not hit a bunch of, you know, so we got to do London and Paris and Rome and Amsterdam. And that was a big sort of coaching point with my parents. It’s, listen, you are going to have such a better time if we can pick, like, two places or maybe just like one region and then sort of go deep in exploring that. First, is getting clear on where, right? Then, I would ground that very fast in looking at flights. The flights is where it gets reeled. If you can be flexible even by just a day or two, sometimes that can save you hundreds, maybe thousands of dollars. So, you got to appoint kind of a money person in your crew. Once you know the flights, then it gets much easier. You’re setting kind of basic day-by-day flow of, all right, here’s the places we think we’re visiting. And then this is where I tend to hand things off to my wife a lot of times. Like, I’m the big logistics guy. She helps us make the trip fun. What’s a cool experience or tour we could take together. What’s an amazing highlight I would love us to be able to look back on.

[00:14:04] Kim: So since you are more of the analytical guy, what do you look for in accommodation when you’re traveling with multiple generations?

[00:14:16] Nik: Typically, if we’re doing more than just our core family, we’re almost always looking at, hey, could we do a short-term rental with multiple rooms, preferably multiple bathrooms? The problem with hotels, you’re really not hanging out with your group. It’s only when you’re out doing the stuff, but having an apartment, a short-term rental, whatever it is, you have that shared space, right? So, you get to hang out and everybody gets their own bedroom and can have their own private time, but it’s awesome to be able to, especially if you have young kids with you and you need to kind of get in early for bedtime, well, then the adults are hanging out in the living room. Those are some of the great memories on the trip, too. It’s not just in all the photogenic Insta-worthy spots.

[00:15:04] Kim: So let’s talk a little bit about packing. What are your go-to tips for packing efficiently for yourself, for your toddler and also for the whole crew?

[00:15:17] Nik: It’d be four things. The first is make a list. Before even touching your bag, make a detailed list of what you need. I am one of those people that, in the hours leading up to a trip, I’ll start to have these like what ifs creep in. And what I’ve found works great for me, if you’re that kind of person, you could always do a test pack, right? Maybe pack your bag like a week, two weeks before the trip? And then live out of it for a few days. That’s a really fast way to realize, oh, I’m forgetting something or, oh, I haven’t used this at all, right? So, make a list, think about what you’re actually going to need.

And so, then, in terms of how you pack, we’re big on compression packing cubes, group like items together and then compress them down. Packing cubes are a great way to save space. And you don’t even, you don’t have to spend a bunch of money here. Like for years, I used gallon sized Ziploc bags. Those work great too, because you can press all the air out of them. It groups your stuff together.

In terms of nifty hacks, we always plan to have a midway laundry stop on our trip. And to me, like that is one of the ultimate ways to pack less. When I say laundry, people roll their eyes, and they go, “oh, I don’t want to do laundry on my trip.” But here’s the deal, you’re not doing a massive load like you are at home. You didn’t bring that much with you to begin with. If you’ve planned to pack light and do laundry along the way, and if you stay in a rental that has a washer, it is really not that hard to throw a few pieces in the wash in the morning and then hang them up to dry overnight when you’re back in for the day.

A couple of just like toddler specific things, I’ll throw in our travel stroller. And I would say this is probably one of the most important purchases you’ll make. It’s this travel stroller with the touch of one button. It collapses down very kind of flat enough that it can go through the conveyor belt at TSA security. But it is a champ on cobblestones, sidewalks, and it’s really good for, hey, you’re hopping on a train. You’re getting on public transport. We can grab her out of the stroller and then one button, boom, it’s collapsed down, it goes into the luggage area. That is by far our No. 1 recommended travel item.

[00:17:43] Kim: Love that. Thank you so much for sharing those tips. I know that you are a big points and miles guy, and I’ve watched your video of you flying Emirates first class on points and miles, which was awesome. So can you just share with us maybe one or two tips for using rewards to help offset travel costs for big group travel?

[00:18:05] Nik: Well, points and miles were a huge reason we were able to do that. And I was tallying it up not long ago. Points and miles covered about $37,000 in travel experiences during that trip. So, if you know how to redeem well, it can be a huge money saver. In total, points and miles has saved me over $150,000 in travel expenses. So, the really simple version of this is, for anybody listening in disbelief, because I was you a few years ago, you’ve probably already taken a flight or you’ve heard the pitch. Most credit card companies offer some kind of signup bonus, like, 60,000 points, 100,000 points if you spend a certain amount of money in the first few months. That’s not a scam. That’s real, right? So, the trick here is sign up for the card, but don’t go spend a bunch of money on stuff you don’t need. Use that to pay for your actual life expenses. All the points and miles we’ve accumulated has come from paying our bills. Look for opportunities to meet these minimum spends. That is the biggest way you’re going to earn a lot of points.

Learn about AAA Visa Signature^® Credit Cards and how you can take advantage of cash back on travel and everyday purchases and experiences.

[00:19:20] Kim: For someone listening who feels nervous about coordinating a big multigenerational trip, what’s your biggest piece of advice?

[00:19:30] Nik: I would say just begin with the end in mind. Why are you doing this, right? Because it’d probably be easier to travel without your family. Probably the reason someone would be considering doing this is in creating some shared memories. Just know going in something is going to go wrong, right? So, think about that, that shared trial, that shared frustration. With travel being kind of that shared purpose for my wife and I, I would say 75% of the funny stories we recount, we think about is somehow relating to, you remember this crazy thing that happened? There was a quote that really inspired me when we first launched our channel. On your journey through life, make sure your story has at least one extraordinary chapter. I think travel is such a beautiful way to do that. And if you’re trying to write a story that includes your family, includes other loved ones, this is such a powerful kind of like accelerant to creating that possibility for you.

[00:20:30] Kim: I love that. Nik, what’s the best way that our audience can find you?

[00:20:35] Nik: The best way is check us out on YouTube. Our handle is Away Together. That’s really the best place.

[00:20:58] Kim: Thank you Nik for sharing your story with us and for kind of reminding us that you can plan a good trip with toddlers, with teens, with grandparents. So it is possible. So thank you so much.

[00:21:11] Nik: Absolutely. Thank you for having me. It’s really worth it.

[00:21:17] Kim: Big thanks to Nik for showing us that you really can plan a trip that works for toddlers, teens and grandparents without losing your mind. A good trip isn’t just about where you go, it’s about who you go with and how you show up for each other along the way. If this episode helped you rethink your next family trip, leave us a review, share it with someone planning their own reunion, and we’ll catch you next time on Merging Into Life. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are not necessarily the views of AAA Northeast, AAA and or its affiliates.

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*The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are not necessarily the views of AAA Northeast, AAA and/or its affiliates.

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EPISODE SUMMARY

Most of us don’t think about car maintenance until something goes wrong, but what if a few simple checks could help you avoid disaster (or at least a blown tire)?

In this practical episode of Merging Into Life, host Zack Klapman of The Smoking Tire podcast is joined by mechanic, auto repair advocate and founder of Women Auto Know, Audra Fordin. Together, they discuss simple DIY car skills every driver should know, how to spot warning signs before they become emergencies and what to do if you find yourself stuck on the side of the road.

Whether you’re a first-time car owner or someone who hasn’t touched a tire gauge in years, this episode will help you feel more confident behind the wheel and better prepared for the unexpected.

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KEY TAKEAWAYS

• Your car provides crucial feedback. Never ignore common car warning signs. Addressing these issues immediately can prevent costly repairs and maintain your vehicle safety.
• Regularly inspect tire pressure, measure tire tread depth, and check for sidewall damage. For maximum tire longevity and safety, most experts recommend replacing tires after six years, regardless of visible tread wear.
• Ensure your windshield wipers are not streaking, your wiper fluid is full, and all headlights and taillights are functioning correctly.
• In the event of a flat tire or breakdown, remain calm. Safely pull over, turn on your hazard lights, and prioritize safety. If you need to exit the vehicle on a busy road, always exit on the passenger side away from traffic.
• Be prepared for the unexpected with a well-stocked emergency car kit. Essential items for roadside preparedness include jumper cables, a bright flashlight, a portable phone charger, a tire inflator, a comprehensive first aid kit, gloves, water and a space or thermal blanket.
• If your vehicle feels off such as a persistent weird sound or your car pulling to one side, get it inspected by a mechanic right away. Early issue detection is the best way to save money on repairs.

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TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:01] Zack: Well, when I was a young high school man, I drove a bunch of old cars. I had repaired so many things. And I remember driving one day, the oil pressure gauge suddenly went to zero, and the engine got very loud. And I pulled over right away. I knew that that was a bad thing. And I called a mechanic friend of mine. I said, what does it mean when the oil pressure gage goes to zero? And he said, it means you get to rebuild your engine. So that was an educational summer spent with very, very greasy arms. I remember the engine was so heavy. When I took it out of the car, it almost tipped over the engine hoist. The thing that’s made to pick up an engine almost fell over. My approach to car maintenance has changed a lot in the last few years because I actually do it now. If something’s a little bit wrong with my car and it’s beyond my ability to fix, I will take it to a professional. I will just suck in my pride and accept that I’m gonna swipe this credit card, and it’s gonna sting. But it will keep the car going down the road. Every year, spend a little bit of money to maintain the essential parts of that car.

Hello, and welcome back to Merging into Life, the show where we help you navigate life’s unexpected turns, including the literal ones we face every day on the road. I’m Zach Klapman, your host for the Road Ready mini series where we cover everything you need to be confident on the road. Today, we’re diving into something we all rely on, but rarely think about until it’s too late: car safety and roadside emergencies. Because let’s be real, no one plans on a flat tire, a dead battery or getting stuck on the shoulder at midnight. But knowing what to do when it happens, that’s what keeps a bad day from becoming a disaster. We’re joined by Audra Fordin, mechanic, owner of Great Bear Auto Repair and Auto Body in Flushing, Queens, and founder of Women Auto Know and Drivers Auto Know. She’s here to break down what every driver needs to know to prevent accidents, handle roadside hiccups with confidence, and hit the road fully prepared. Audra, thank you so much for joining us.

[00:02:17] Audra: I’m so happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

[00:02:20] Zack: We’re gonna jump right into it. What are the most important parts of your car to check regularly that people tend to overlook?

[00:02:28] Audra: A lot of people usually think oil changes are the most important thing, and yes, they are. But the truth is your car talks to you in so many other ways. Cars give us so many warning signs that oftentimes we overlook, like tire pressure, tread wear, wiper blades, and fluids, brake fluid and coolant, those things don’t seem so urgent until suddenly they are.

[00:02:54] Zack: When those things go wrong, you suddenly have a very big problem, right? About 90% of driving decisions are based on what we can see. So how does that affect how we maintain things like the wipers, the windshield fluid?

[00:03:08] Audra: If you think about it, if you can’t see, you can’t drive safely. Wipers are like the eyelids on your car. If they’re streaking or cracked or they’re noisy, that is your car talking to you, telling you to replace them. And the windshield washer fluid, it isn’t just water. It’s formulated to cut grease and debris to keep your view clear. So like a $10 fix can prevent a crash potentially from happening. Thinking about like being able to see, it’s also like keeping your eyes on the road and putting your phone away.

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[00:03:43] Zack: Absolutely, that is a growing problem everywhere. Another one I see in cities a lot is headlights. People drive with their daytime running lights on, but they’re not as bright as their headlights. So you’ll see folks driving down the road at night, their tail lights are off, their headlights are not on. They think they are, but it’s just like those marker lights. And I don’t know how we get this PSA out to everybody, but please make sure that your headlights are on or they’re in the auto setting on that stalk.

[00:04:10] Audra: Well, there you go. And that is a PSA. You know what’s also a big concern? Headlights are, they’re plastic and they oxidize from the sun, which limits the light that’s coming through. That’s also a major problem. If you see that you can’t see, well then either you need to polish your headlights or you need, like you said, turn your headlights on.

[00:04:32] Zack: I could talk about tire safety for a while, because there’s a bunch of different factors in it. So what should we be looking for in terms of wear, cracks, and then the birth date of a tire?

[00:04:42] Audra: Yeah, I’m always equating the car to the human body. I think it makes it really understandable. And the tires are your car’s first contact with the road. Like your shoes are your first contact with the roads. So think about it like your tires are, your shoes on your car. Now, if the tread is worn below 230 seconds, then you can’t repel the water, which means you’re gonna be like slipping and sliding. And that’s how hydroplaning happens. When it comes to the sidewall of the tire, if you see any cracks or bulges or tears, that’s how a blowout happens. So the sidewall is the weakest part of the tire. And anything that’s over six years old, it’s definitely time to replace them. Even if they look okay, that is the bench line. And the little four digit DOT code that’s on the sidewall, it tells you the week and the year that the tires are made. So when the tires age out, it’s just like your sneakers, they’re expensive, but you get a lot of miles out of them. So it’s well worth the investment in getting a good pair of shoes for your car.

[00:05:46] Zack: Yeah, and again, it goes back to prevention. I mean, if your tires are too worn, you could hydroplane like you said, and then you could slide into a car or a fixed object, and that’s gonna cost you way more money, possibly really hurt yourself or somebody else. The aging thing is something that has come about a lot and been talked about a a lot in the sports car community. My dad, I bought him new tires, and he said, why these have so much tread on them? Well, they were 10 years old. And he didn’t know that as the tires age, they get hard, they kind of get brittle, they basically lose their ability to mold to the ground and grip the ground. So driving on really hard tires can be like driving on ice, even if it’s just raining out.

[00:06:30] Audra: Exactly, it’s so important to pay attention to that. And sometimes people just don’t know, and you don’t know what you don’t know until somebody tells you.

[00:06:37] Zack: All right, potholes are everywhere, especially this time of year, especially in the Northeast. What kind of damage can a pothole cause that people might not notice right away? What should people look for, etc.?

[00:06:50] Audra: So potholes are like mini car crashes for your wheels. They can bend your rims, they can knock your alignment out and put bubbles in your tire. Those bubbles are really dangerous because if it pops, it causes a blowout. Now, a lot of people don’t notice it right away. So pay attention to the way that your car feels, right? If your car starts pulling to one side or if that steering wheel is vibrating or if you see a bulge, a bubble in the tire, that’s the potholes calling card and definitely to be looking out for it. So if you’re going to hit that pothole, you need to also be looking at what, what you hit, where you hit to make sure that you didn’t do any damage. Even if you don’t feel it, you might be able to see it and prevent an accident from happening.

[00:07:39] Zack: Sure, and if you can’t see it, but you feel something’s weird, you might have to pull over or get it inspected, because a really big pothole could damage a part of your suspension or knock an end link loose or something like that. Especially if you live in like the rust belt, and maybe those bolts or those parts are a little bit older worn. So listening to your car is important. I learned this when I drove a 65 Pontiac in high school because if the sound changed, there was a problem. So what kind of sounds should drivers be paying attention to and what can we learn?

[00:08:08] Audra: Like cars don’t make funny noises for fun, right? And listening is just important as looking. So if your brakes are squealing when you apply the brake, it could be a problem with your brake pads. If you hear a thumping, it could be a tire or a suspension issue. A whining, maybe a whining under the hood could be a belt, or like a water pump. My rule of thumb, because there are so many different noises. The most important thing is to pay attention to where it’s coming from. Even if you’re not mechanically inclined, you have to like listen. And if you tune in, you’ll get an idea. If it’s a new noise, if it’s different noise, if it’s the noise that’s getting louder, if it’s coming from the right front, if it is coming from back. Just the most important here is that you don’t ignore it because that is your car’s way of talking to you. It’s like saying, hello, pay attention to me before this gets very expensive or dangerous. And the danger, the danger is real. And it doesn’t show up right away, right? So you just, just being, being mindful really does make a difference for all of those red flags, those sounds that you’re listening to.

[00:09:20] Zack: So I’m sure you’ve had people come into the shop and bring cars in and we have to play that game like they’ve, they just heard a new language, and they’re saying, oh, the car’s making a sound. It’s kind of like a ba-dunk-a-dun-ka-dung-a j-j-j or something. What can people do to help explain the mechanics of what’s happening? I feel like they can say, I was accelerating or decelerating, or it’s only on left or right turns, but are there, is there criteria for those descriptions that would help mechanics understand what’s wrong?

[00:09:48] Audra: Oh my goodness, of course. The more information that you can give to your technician is really gonna just save you time. And so knowing where that sound is coming, coming into your senses, tune in to where you’re hearing it from really does make the difference. And now people don’t come in with like a clunk-a-dickity-dunk. It’s more like listen to this recording. So if you can record it, and then play it. If there’s any lights that are coming along with it on your dashboard, that’s really important to also notate. And it’s so helpful for us in the shop to be able to identify what the problem is. The more information, obviously, you can give us the better.

[00:10:31] Zack: So let’s talk about what to do if something bad actually happens on the road. So if your car breaks down or you get a flat on the highway, like let’s go through the basics. What’s the safe way to pull over? What are the common mistakes people make in those moments? Like how can people react and be safe?

[00:10:47] Audra: Okay, so if you break down or you get a flat, the first thing you need to do is stay calm. Panicking is not helpful at all. Don’t slam on the brakes. Specifically, if you get blowout while you’re driving, the last thing you’re gonna do is slam on the brakes. You’re going to stay calm. You’re going to ease off of the gas. And put on some indicators so that other drivers know that you’re in distress. If you need to pull to the right, then put your right directional on, and then when you get to the side of the road, put your hazards on right away. And if you’re on a road with traffic. Never, never get out of the car on the driver’s side where the traffic is. That is a huge mistake, and too many people do that. And it’s incredibly dangerous. If you need to get out the car, always exit on the passenger side away from the traffic.

[00:11:49] Zack: Speaking of being roadside ready, of course, the most valuable thing to have when you’re on the road is a AAA membership. Roadside assistance, big discounts on things you use every day, travel packages and so much more are yours when you are a AAA member. With levels to suit your lifestyle, AAA is there for you. Check out AAA.com for more information. I’ve seen folks, they stop there instead of pulling over, because they don’t wanna damage their car further. But it’s so much more dangerous to stop on an active highway in the middle of it than to pull off on the side of the road. Even if your tire is going flat, it’s done anyway. You’re not gonna hurt the tire more by just driving a hundred more feet, but getting off of the roadmap. It’s so scary.

[00:12:36] Audra: Yeah, even if you’re driving on the rim, just to get out of the way of moving traffic is really like the utmost of importance.

[00:12:46] Zack: Yeah, I see too many cars that are on the side of the road, and they don’t have any illumination on, except maybe like the inside the dome lights on, but the hazards aren’t on. Like you have electricity, so please turn those lights on. All right, everyone should learn how to change a flat tire before they have to. Great thing to practice at least once. Can you walk us through the basic steps and maybe share what tools people might forget that they need?

[00:13:09] Audra: Yeah, everyone should know how to change that flat tire, meaning do it in your driveway, right? Before you’re stuck on the side of the road in the cold trying to change the tire. And the best tips I can give you is to make sure that you’re on a hard level ground, right, not soft or muddy terrain. I had an experience one time I was changing the flat tire, and I forgot to take the tire out of the trunk. So the first thing I did was take out all of the tools and I loosened the lug nut. And then I jacked up the car with my tire iron and I realized that I had to bring the car back down. So there you go, that’s what you need. You need your tire iron, you need your jack and you need a spare tire. It’s really important also to remember to have air in your spare tire, right? It’s gotta be fully inflated. Nothing is more deflating than going to your spare tire to find out that you don’t even have a spare. When you are changing a flat tire, never put your body underneath the car. So that’s the time to have like a cue in your mind that you wanna take the spare tire, and actually put it underneath the car so that in the event that the car does drop, if the jack breaks or falls, it’s not gonna fall onto you. And when you’re putting the lug nuts back on, you do wanna do it in a star-shaped pattern so that they seat on evenly. That’s really important.

[00:14:43] Zack: Yeah, also something I have gotten wrong when I’ve changed tires is not cracking the lug nuts when the tire’s on the ground. Sometimes I have jacked the car up before that, and unless I have a friend with me who can hold the brake, if I start to turn the lug nut to the left, the wheel spins with me.

[00:15:01] Audra: They have something that you can use as an inflatable to fix your flat in the event that you are stuck.

[00:15:08] Zack: What do you think of that stuff?

[00:15:11] Audra: I think it’s wonderful. The last thing I wanna be doing is changing a flat tire. That’s not fun at all. There’s nothing fun about it. I think that a lot of cars these days also don’t have a jack in it. They only have that inflatable goop for you to put in. So knowing how to use that also makes a big difference.

[00:15:31] Zack: What is your advice to help people stay calm when things go wrong on the road? And you said they should just don’t freak out, but is there a way to settle oneself that you recommend?

[00:15:42] Audra: Breathe first, act second, because panic makes you forget your steps. Think of the three S’s. Think safety, then stability, and then the solution. Am I safe where I am? Is my car stable? And then what is the next step? I have to call for help. Am I changing a tire? Am I waiting it out? Just breathe through it, really, is so, so very important. Panic, panic when it’s all done and you go home.

[00:16:13] Zack: Is there anything that people forget to do in the aftermath of a problem, whether it’s a mechanical situation or an accident that could help them stay safer or make dealing with insurance or roadside assistance easier?

[00:16:25] Audra: Yeah, for sure. Documents, documents, documents. Write it down or take pictures, put notes in your phone. And I mean like everything. Your car, the road, the other vehicle, if there is one. Write down really what happened while it’s still fresh in your mind. And then if there’s another car involved. Don’t forget to grab the driver’s information, like not just their insurance, but their license and their registration, because those details will make dealing with the insurance company later just so much easier. Do it now while it’s fresh in your mind in the moment.

[00:17:03] Zack: All right, let’s talk about emergency kits a little bit. What should people keep in their car? Like are there some must haves you can think of, especially during winter, if people live in a place where that’s a big problem or just a place with an aggressive climate, we’ll call it.

[00:17:19] Audra: Must haves, jumper cables, a flashlight, a charger, a cell phone charger that’s not connected to your phone. Like if your car dies, you still need to have connectivity. You definitely need a first aid kit. And we’re talking a tire inflator or a can of the fix-a-flat, depending on the seasonal stuff. I don’t know how it is in LA, but here in New York, that winter time gets really cold. So having gloves, we have snow. So if you’re getting caught in the slush, maybe some kitty litter would help to get out for traction in the event that we’re slipping and sliding. Definitely an ice scraper in the winter, because the seasons are changing now.

[00:18:00] Zack: Water is one of, I think, the most important things someone should keep in their car, whether it’s a cold climate or hot climate, but especially out here, you could be driving through the desert, you’re headed to Vegas, you’re out just for a fun drive. And if you break down somewhere, you might be one to four hours before someone shows up. And dehydration could become a big problem, and it’ll cloud your thinking first aid kit for sure. And another one, especially if it’s cold or you’re in the desert. I think a space blanket is a great thing to have. It’s also a big thing if you come upon an accident. And someone is waiting for help to arrive, it can help prevent shock if that person got really injured or they’re freaked out. There’s just so many uses for something warm. And if you don’t have the room for like a bulky jacket, go with a space blanket. I’m also a really big fan of those lithium ion jump boxes. I had a battery that was going bad. And it was kind of like in the last couple of months where I wasn’t sure, is it the connection? Is it corrosion? The battery is just old. But if you live in a rural area or you don’t wanna flag down strangers to help you jump your car, it can just be a time saver. And a lot of times these lithium jump boxes also have ports where you can charge your phone. So it’s independent from your car’s battery. So it can do a bunch of different things.

[00:19:13] Audra: I totally agree. I’m gonna add one add to that, which is to make sure that that is charged up. Yeah, being stuck on the side of the road is no vacation.

[00:19:24] Zack: Are there any things you’d like to keep in your car or that could be like a creative hack that people might not know about?

[00:19:29] Audra: Some things I always keep in my car is duct tape and zip ties. I know it sounds funny, but I can’t tell you how many times I’ve actually used these two things and they’ve gotten me or someone else out of a jam. Like I had zip ties help me secure a loose bumper. And another time I had duct tape holding my mirror together. And I can remember one time that I had a leaky radiator hose and I duct taped it up, and it got me to the shop.

[00:20:00] Zack: Wow.

[00:20:01] Audra: It works. It’s outstanding actually.

[00:20:04] Zack: I didn’t realize it was that heat resistant. That’s impressive.

[00:20:08] Audra: I’ve actually, I also used it to make a thermostat gasket. It was leaking, and duct tape, a lot of layers of duct tape. Duct tape’s fantastic.

[00:20:16] Zack: That’s awesome. I’ve changed enough thermostat gaskets on my old cars that I’m like, I know the shape of those things, the thickness. I’m very impressed.

[00:20:23] Audra: I’m ready to say desperate times call for desperate measures.

[00:20:25] Zack: You gotta do what you gotta do.

[00:20:25] Audra: And duct tape and twine too. Duct tape, twine and zip ties. They’re wonderful.

[00:20:32] Zack: Yeah, I mean, I see a lot of people that have their bumpers hanging off and it’s either causing drag or they’ll get on the highway, and their bumper will go from just flapping to gone. Now you have to buy a new bumper when you could have just had duct tape for four bucks, got yourself to a shop or got home, and just put the clip back on. We have one more question. So when someone does need help and they call AAA, what should they do in the meantime to keep themselves and their passengers safe while they wait?

[00:21:01] Audra: If you can, I’m gonna say that you should wait inside your car with your seat belts on, and your hazards flashing. Even though you’re sitting inside your car doesn’t mean that if somebody’s passing by that they wouldn’t hit you. So you having your seatbelts on if you’re standing there really is, I think it’s prudent, and it’s well worth it. It doesn’t cost you anything. Right, your hazards are on. If it’s not safe, get out on the passenger side of the car, and then wait behind the guard rail. Keep your hood open. So that it’s obvious to drivers passing by that your car is disabled. And then if you’re waiting for help, stay safe, stay safe. Most important is stay safe. You’re already in a bad position, so the most important thing is just to make sure that you’re okay. Keep your phone with you, and don’t drain it by like scrolling on TikTok. You wanna save the battery for updates from help. Yeah, save that for the call that matters. I think that that most important is just to be safe. I can’t say that enough.

[00:22:02] Zack: I think I’d add if you’re in a location that feels unsafe because of traffic and speeds, you can call the local highway patrol police department, and they might send an officer just to park behind you with the lights on. I’ve seen officers doing that here and I think that’s really great because they’re adding visibility to someone who, especially if they have a disabled electrical system in their car, they don’t have hazards on. That can be really dangerous.

[00:22:25] Audra: Yeah, I agree completely. They also do have in a lot of cars, it comes from the manufacturer through those triangles, the reflective triangles that are available. You could put that on your car. You could put it a few feet behind your car

[00:22:39] Zack: Audra, thank you so much. This was very informative, and I think helpful to lots and lots of people. Where can people find you? Is there anything you wanna mention, any organizations that you’re a part of that we should know about?

[00:22:48] Audra: Yeah, well, thank you so much. I am the founder of Women Auto Know. We are a not-for-profit, educating and empowering drivers about auto repair and Women Auto Know fuels the mission. Drivers Auto Know is where you can find our information at local auto shops across the country.

[00:23:11] Zack: Thanks again to Audra for coming on the show. From checking your tires to knowing how to pull over properly, these are tips that could truly be a lifesaver. If you found this episode helpful, share it with a friend and we’ll see you next time on Merging Into Life. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are not necessarily the views of AAA Northeast, AAA and or its affiliates.

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RESOURCES

Merging Into Life

AAA Roadside Assistance

AAA Approved Auto Repair Facilities

Basic Car Maintenance 101

Ask a Mechanic: Signs Your Car Needs Maintenance

When to Replace Tires: Don’t Ignore These Signs

Ask a Mechanic: When to Replace Windshield Wipers

What to Do When Your Car Breaks Down

How to Change a Flat Tire

What Are Your Dashboard Lights Trying to Tell You?

The Smoking Tire

Women Auto Know

Great Bear Auto Repair and Auto Body

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Want to Learn More? Drop Us a Note

*The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are not necessarily the views of AAA Northeast, AAA and/or its affiliates.

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EPISODE SUMMARY

Biking isn’t just a weekend hobby anymore. Whether you’re commuting car-free on an e-bike, taking a scooter to the store or just exploring new ways to move through your city, micromobility is transforming urban travel. But with this shift comes important questions like how do you stay safe? And where should a beginner even start?

In this episode of Merging Into Life, host Zack Klapman of The Smoking Tire podcast gets practical advice from Tangier Barnes Wright, deputy director of shared micromobility at PeopleForBikes. They dive into everything from navigating city streets to choosing your first e-bike, exploring how micromobility can be fun, safe and accessible — no special gear required.

Listen in to feel more confident, informed and ready to ride, whether you’re a seasoned cyclist or just testing the waters.

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KEY TAKEAWAYS

• The use of bikes, e-bikes and scooters is much more than a trend; it’s a rapidly growing, practical alternative to car travel, especially for short, local trips.
• The lack of protected bike lanes, the presence of high-speed roads and dangerous intersections are often what keep new riders hesitant. Supporting safer street design helps everyone, including drivers, by improving traffic flow and clarity.
• While bright gear, lights and reflectors are key, being predictable is just as important. Always use clear hand signals and avoid sudden, unexpected movements.
• Micromobility doesn’t need to replace every trip. Start small with a ride to the park, a local cafe or commuting to work once a week, and build your confidence from there.
• E-bikes reduce barriers significantly. If you worry about long distances or arriving sweaty, the electric assist makes commuting much more realistic and enjoyable, especially when paired with panniers (saddlebags) for your gear.
• Sharing the road respectfully, supporting policies that lead to safer bike infrastructure and being highly aware of cyclists helps make streets safer for everyone, whether they’re on two wheels or four.

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TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:01] Zack: In high school, in 9th and 10th grade, I rode a bicycle to school pretty much every day, sometimes even in the rain. I was really into mountain biking at the time. And of course, I wanted to show my independence and defy my parents. So, I would just put on rain pants and stuff, and I would arrive to school. Wasn’t the most hygienic way to travel during the rainstorm, but I did it. And I enjoyed it. And then more recently, I own an e-bike, my wife owns an e-bike. We find it a great way to just zip around to run local errands in our area. And more than that, I really enjoy riding around. It sounds cliche, but wind in your face, sun on your face — I think it taps back into that that childhood joy of riding around, feeling very independent and actually seeing the world around you.

Hey everyone, welcome back to Merging Into Life. I’m your host, Zack Klapman. Today we’re diving into a topic that you’ve probably seen around your city, but you didn’t know has a specific name. It’s called micromobility. If you see people riding bikes or e-scooters or e-bikes, those all fall into this category. Two-wheel travel is on the rise. People are zooming and scooting their way around their town. But you probably have some questions. Is it safe? What do I need to know before buying one of these products and hitting the road? And is this actually how people are going to get around in the future? Are they going to take my car away? What is happening? To help us answer all of this, we are joined by Tangier Barnes Wright. Tangier is the deputy director of shared micromobility at PeopleForBikes. With a background in equitable urban planning and policy, she’s worked across sectors to make streets safer, more accessible and more inclusive. A cyclist herself, she’s a passionate advocate for infrastructure that supports all types of riders. Tangier, before we dive in, can you tell us a bit more about what led you to work in micromobility and urban planning and what drives your passion for this space?

[00:02:10] Tangier: I got into micromobility because I have always ridden a bike. I don’t remember not riding a bike. So, I’ve been riding a bike. Through work, I started to discover, as I was commuting to work regularly, that, like the disparities in our urban environment that prevented people from accessing safe trails and safe places to ride, there were issues with the way our roads are designed, and how our streets look, and how people who aren’t as comfortable riding a bike aren’t going to get out here, and just ride anywhere. So, I started working with neighborhoods specifically on transportation and mobility issues. I wanted to help break down the discriminatory and bad planning and policy that had led us to some of the situations we’re still in, which is where there are no safe places to walk or bike.

[00:03:03] Zack: Yeah, I mean, I’m a car person, but I am a huge advocate for rideable, walkable stuff, because everybody benefits. So, let’s break down the term micromobility. And why is it becoming such a big part of the transportation conversation across the United States?

[00:03:20] Tangier: So, micromobility refers to transport options that are lightweight vehicles like bikes and scooters. The bicycle has been around since what, like the 18-teens. I think then the first one was basically an adult strider. It was like two wheels, a seat, handlebars, no pedals. And that was in the 18-teens. And then later in the 1800s, the model that we more recognize now with the pedals came to be. That was like in the late 1800s. So, humans have been choosing micromobility for over 150 years. When we design for people who aren’t in cars, it makes our roads and networks better, safer, more accessible to everybody, even those who are driving. Bikes and scooters help build community around freedom and fun and physical activity. And they make getting around pleasant. It’s not to say that it’s like without any stress, but gosh, it feels so nice to hop off your bike right where you need to be and not have circled the block five times looking for parking.

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[00:04:28] Zack: Yeah, I think there’s reduction of stress in some cases. I mean, part of it is exercise itself helps do that. I mean you’re out having this very enjoyable experience, doing what some people would elect to do on a weekend once for fun, but you’re commuting that way. So I think it’s really nice.

[00:04:42] Tangier: That’s a fantastic point, right? It becomes this way to connect and engage with our parks and other open spaces. And we start thinking about different ways and routes to take. And again, because it’s slower, you hear the sounds and smell the smells and see the sights. And there’s a connection to community as a result of that.

[00:05:02] Zack: My office is quite close to where I live. So sometimes I have to drive there because I have an errand afterwards that’s further away. But when I don’t, and if I can bicycle there or walk or ride an electric scooter or something, there’s just this almost subconscious knowledge that I’m not spending money on gas, that I’m not turning this engine on, which is very inefficient thing, just to drive half a mile. Our culture is very much like you deserve a car, and it’s your space, and you get to listen to music, and it is like your private little apartment. But there’s plenty of times where that actually adds more stress to your life. And I think if people tried alternate ways to go short distances, of course, if you don’t have to carry a ton of cargo, they probably find it’s really enjoyable weather permitting. So let’s talk urban planning, because you can have a bike, but if there’s nowhere to ride it, then it’s really just an ornament. So what are some of the biggest infrastructure gaps that you still see when it comes to supporting e-bike or scooter riders?

[00:05:59] Tangier: A lack of protected bike lanes is a barrier to people riding, especially those who are nervous but interested. When there’s no separation between biking or scooting and motor vehicles, that can be scary. High speed limits is a problem. Having to travel over highways, under highways, across giant multilane roads and not having safe, a safe way to do that.

[00:06:26] Zack: Around here, there’s some six-lane roads I bike across sometimes. And there’s crosswalks and stuff, and it’s well marked, but there’s just something in my brain that knows the volume of cars that are interacting at this intersection, and the number of things I need to pay attention to, instead of me having to watch if there’s one lane each way, but now I have to watch six lanes or more, and make sure no one misses their red light. One of the biggest problems I’ve seen with the discussion of let’s call it pedestrian transportation versus car transportation. Whenever we talk about city planning and pedestrian transportation, you’ll get pushback from car people that it’s like, I don’t want you to take my car. They might say, I have three kids, I have to take them to all these errands, da-da-da-da-da. And those reasons are totally valid. But what we’re not advocating for taking your car. What I’d like to do is provide another option. And if that works better for folks that need that option, they choose it. That takes cars off the road. And now the people that need their car for any number of reasons will probably have a better time driving their car also. So, we’re going to start talking about safety a bit. So what are some common misconceptions people have about e-bikes?

[00:07:36] Tangier: Common misconceptions are that, especially talking about e-bikes, that oh, they’re too fast, right? Most e-bikes travel at bike-like speeds. A Class 1 e-bike maxes out; the e-assist will not let you go faster than 20 mph. And the class system helps distinguish, kind of, which of those e-bikes are allowed in which types of spaces. A Class 1 is your typical what you’re seeing people commute on for the most part. Riding an e-bike is like riding a regular bike. And if you want to break the law, you don’t need an e-bike to do that. There’s also a misconception that they’re like too heavy or they’re super heavy. Certainly, e-bikes can weigh more than a regular pedal bike, but this isn’t, it doesn’t have to be a barrier. There are lots of options and variety of e-bikes out there. And so, it requires going to different places and shopping around and seeing. And also, depending on where you have where you store it, you don’t have to haul it anywhere and you can just roll it into a garage and plug it in, and that, then, the weight isn’t as much of a barrier. You don’t have to store them in your apartment or at your house or at your townhome. You get to dock it if it’s a docked system or just park it wherever you are, and somebody else takes care of it and maintains it, and you don’t have to worry about carrying it anywhere.

[00:08:55] Zack: Yeah. So, if someone’s new to a city, they’re looking to start biking as their main form of transportation, how should they get started?

[00:09:02] Tangier: Well, if you’re already there, that’s one thing. If you haven’t moved yet, try to find housing close to where you’re working or where you know you’re going to want to go. That’s not always possible. So, if you’re there, you find yourself wanting to explore and start biking as your main form of transportation, start with your maps. Pick up a bike map. Most cities have a physical bike map at a bike shop but get familiar with the bike route options on Google Maps or whatever your preferred map app is, so that you can start to see your neighborhood and just where the bike networks connect into where you are, where you want to go. Lots of work has been put into creating connected low-stress bike networks in many cities and towns. And so, a lot of that work has been done. Look for the local bike meetups. Bike advocacy organizations often host bike rides, casual, like no-drop. No drop meaning nobody gets left behind, bike rides, community bike rides, I think go a long way in helping people become familiar and just get started in biking in a new place, finding the people who were doing it.

[00:10:20] Zack: So some of the most important safety tips, a lot of people overlook them, like making yourself visible or simply wearing a helmet. So what are a few simple habits or pieces of gear that make a difference for somebody?

[00:10:34] Tangier: I do want to say that making ourselves visible as bicyclists is smart, but we are no way obligated to do so just because we choose to bike. That being said, there’s some really fun gear out there to make ourselves more visible. Spoke-flectors are one of my favorites. They are little tubes that’s all reflective material that you just snap onto your spokes. And I love them, because I put them on both wheels. And especially at night, when cars are coming from the cross streets, they can see me lit up from the side. So, it’s not just like I have a headlight and taillight. I am completely visible from both sides because of these spoke reflectors. Highly recommend spoke reflectors. I also love neon and reflective. You can’t have too much reflective wear. We’re talking about riding at night. And then neon works day or night. I like neon and bright colored helmets. I have a neon yellow helmet that I love. You can buy reflective tape to add to your bike. Also, being predictable is a safety thing. Use your turn signals just like you’re driving a car. Make sure that the other users of the road know what you’re doing. And try not to surprise other users of the road. Headlights, taillights at night, always very bright ones.

[00:11:57] Zack: Being predictable is a great point, because I know when I was a younger person you bicycle as if you own the road and you bridge this weird gap between vehicle and pedestrian, and it’s almost like you change it in the moment and you expect everyone around you to adhere to your new laws. So, not doing that is a great way to not get hit by a car.

[00:12:16] Tangier: Yeah.

[00:12:18] Zack: Hey bikers, quick heads up. Did you know AAA covers bicycles too? That’s right. Whether you’re cruising the boardwalk or commuting to work, AAA’s got your back with roadside assistance, gear discounts and other perks for as low as $2.50 per month. So, if your chain snaps or tire pops, help is just a call or click away. Pedal smart. Check out AAA.com/Everyday for more information.

Let’s talk etiquette. So, what is the etiquette when riding near pedestrians, cars, other cyclists?

[00:12:56] Tangier: Yeah. When it comes to riding near pedestrians, cars, other cyclists, I don’t know that there’s any unspoken rules, but behavior I’ve seen, maybe I wish people were a little bit more considerate when it comes to their speed. I see people and have experienced people on our trail system. There are people pushing strollers. There are children riding their bikes. There are people in wheelchairs. There are people walking and running, all these users of these shared paths. And I still see some bicyclists traveling at too high of speeds, endangering everybody else, including themselves, if they crash. They’re trying to go 20 mph on a shared-use path. It’s dangerous. I wish everybody would just slow down until it clears. And then, maybe pick up your speed when it’s not congested with other users. It’s a shared path for a reason. On the road, I think kind of goes back to just being predictable.

[00:13:54] Zack: Let’s say a bicyclist doesn’t have the fortune of riding in a city that has designed a lot of bike spaces. How can riders stay safe on roads that are not designed for bicyclists?

[00:14:06] Tangier: Choose roads where it’s less likely that a driver’s going to be going 30 mph or more. Again, a lot of work has been put into creating bike networks and selecting these low-stress streets. As a bicyclist, you have to be defensive. You’ve got to be aware of what’s going on, who’s in front of you, who’s beside you. But yeah, just because there’s not infrastructure on a street doesn’t make it unrideable.

[00:14:30] Zack: So there’s being safe, that’s one thing. And then there’s confidence, which if you’re a new rider or a hesitant rider, how do you build confidence on two wheels?

[00:14:40] Tangier: I love helping people feel confident on a bike. One, I’ve done this with friends and people who are hesitant. And I think that’s a huge part of it is finding a friend and finding somebody else who bikes. Bike clubs that do casual, all-inclusive rides or just that one person at work, maybe, or somebody in your family, a family member who bikes. Plan some casual rides with somebody who is familiar with biking. If you don’t know anybody, I think building confidence requires feeling at ease when you’re on your bike. Having a bike that fits, that is operating properly, it has been well maintained, and in a space that you where you feel at ease. Maybe getting on a bike right outside of your apartment, your house, your condo onto a street does not feel like you’re not at ease there. Can you take your bike to a park? Can you take it to one of the off-street trails and start there, where it’s just not as where you’re maybe you don’t start right away riding on the road? Also having some incentive. I’m going to get on my bike and there’s a destination, right?

[00:15:53] Zack: Yeah. And this leads us into our next topic, which is integrating micromobility into your life. So some people kind of suffer from this all or nothing mentality. And I think a lot of what we’ve talked about, I’ll call it expert level bicycling, which is I’m gonna ride to the grocery store or bike to work five days a week. That might seem like a big thing for for people to bite off in the beginning.

[00:16:13] Tangier: It can for sure be intimidating and the all or nothing is definitely there. It’s oh, if I can’t do this like all the time or every day, then why bother? But I would say if if you find joy in it, then that’s why. If it gets you connected to people and your neighborhood or the neighborhood next door or your local restaurants.

[00:16:36] Zack: So let’s let’s shift perspective. I am a car person. That’s my job. I review cars for a living. But also a lot of people drive cars. What can drivers do to better support cyclists, scooters, make people feel safer? And how do we share the road better?

[00:16:53] Tangier: Vote for policies that are advertised as creating safety for bikes and pedestrians. Because policies that create safer spaces, meaning adding bike lanes, whatever’s reducing barriers to people getting on bikes and using them, all of those policies are also good for drivers. It’s not about bikes versus cars when we’re talking about like the safety of our streets. If we design roads and our streets for people who are strolling or walking or biking or scooting, then those roads become safer also for drivers.

[00:17:34] Zack: Someone’s listening, they’re curious, what is the one tip that you would give them to just give this a try?

[00:17:41] Tangier: The one thing I would tell them is depending on how far this person’s commute is, consider an e-bike. It makes the commute faster, much more comfortable in many cases. You don’t feel like you’re going so slow with the flow of traffic. Make your routes in advance. Get all your stuff together the night before, your helmet, whatever you need to ride, depending on weather. Make sure you gather all of that stuff so you can have a successful commute, and know how you want to get there.

[00:18:14] Zack: E-bikes reduce the sweat factor. Because I used to bike to school, and I always arrived quite gross. E-bikes get rid of that.

[00:18:21] Tangier: And it these e-bikes really are beginning to help people see how they can replace car trips because they can get there just a little faster, right? They’re amazing. E-bikes are fantastic. I highly recommend panniers. Nobody wants to carry a backpack and your back’s all sweaty. Panniers, all about it, or a bin or something that you can store your stuff in.

[00:18:46] Zack: Some people call them saddlebags, right? They can hang over the wheels. Right.

[00:18:49] Tangier: Yeah, saddlebags, panniers, and also it is just get go online and find they have these nice checklists of just how to prepare for a successful bike ride. You need your lock, you need a helmet that’s comfortable, and your bike needs to be in good working order. Make sure your tires are blown up, all that stuff in advance before the day you’re gonna go ride.

[00:19:13] Zack: Well, thanks for sharing your tips on staying safe when it comes to safer micromobility.

[00:19:18] Tangier: Thank you so much for having me. This was a pleasure. I appreciate it.

[00:19:25] Zack: Big thanks to Tangier for sharing her tips for staying safe when it comes to safer micromobility. Whether you’re new to two wheels or you just want to ride smarter, we hope this episode helped you feel more confident on the road. Remember, if you’re thinking about buying an e-bike, make sure you look into your local laws and safety regulations and how they apply to the type of e-bike or moped you’re considering. And if you’re enjoying the show, do us a quick favor. Hit that like button, leave a review, and share it with a friend who’d love it too. It helps more than you know, and it keeps the good stuff coming your way. Thanks for being part of the ride. See you next time on Merging Into Life. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are not necessarily the views of AAA Northeast, AAA and/or its affiliates.

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RESOURCES

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*The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are not necessarily the views of AAA Northeast, AAA and/or its affiliates.

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IN THIS EPISODE

There’s a lot to know about buying a car, especially for a first-time car buyer. How do you get the highest value for the lowest price? Is it better to buy new or used? Should you lease or own? Sedan or hatchback?

Don’t worry — we got you! This episode is full of new car buying tips.

You’ll find out about how to negotiate a deal, where to get financing, the best time to buy a vehicle and what to look for when buying your first car.

Guests Nicole Wakelin, automotive journalist, and Ted Lyons, vice president of financial services at AAA Northeast, share their expertise.

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KEY TAKEAWAYS

[3:01] – The first things you need to consider before you start car shopping, including what to look for when buying your first car
[9:55] – The best time to buy a vehicle
[10:34] – Budgeting and the importance of getting pre-approved. We answer: How much should I spend on my first car?

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TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:02]
Amanda Greene: I go to get into the car this morning and there’s a puddle under it. I can’t tell what this is. Oil, brake fluid, coolant, whatever it is, I’m fairly sure it should be in the car and not on my driveway. The air conditioning doesn’t work. Rust is starting to show and now this, I’m out. It’s time for a new car.

Welcome to Merging into Life where we navigate life’s milestones, one episode at a time. Brought to you by AAA Northeast. I’m your host, Amanda Greene.

READ MORE

Join me as I figure out how to do all the things we have to do, but don’t come with instructions like buying insurance or what you really need to know when making what is probably the biggest purchase of your life, buying a house or maybe moving back in with your parents or booking your dream vacation.

Today on this show we’re going to get into buying first car. Whether it’s leasing a car, buying new or used, we’ve got you covered. The two main factors that come up when buying wheels are, what are you going to buy and how are you going to pay for it? So, I found two people who know cars and the art of buying and selling inside and out.

[00:01:17]
Nicole Wakelin: This is a crazy burly kind of truck and it can go off-road and you can take it up rocks, and they took us out to their new driving school and we jumped it, took it up in the air, whee and came down on the other side.

[00:01:30]
Amanda Greene: That’s Nicole Wakelin. She’s the editor-at-large for CarBuzz and a juror for both the North American Car and Trucking Utility of the Year and World Car of the Year. And yes, she got to jump a truck at a specially built facility under the safest of circumstances. It’s all part of her job, which involves test-driving about a 100 vehicles a year.

[00:01:52]
Nicole Wakelin: They appear in my driveway each week for me to drive and then I fly all over the world to drive even more of them.

[00:01:59]
Amanda Greene: What got you into cars initially? What do you love so much about cars that you are someone who drives over a 100 a year?

[00:02:05]
Nicole Wakelin: Well, you know what? When I was a teenager, I lived in a small town and a car was all about freedom. As soon as you got your driver’s license, you suddenly were no longer tethered to your house all the time. And the minute I got my license, it was like two seconds after the law said I could get it, I had it and it was just, I never turned back. I love driving, I love the freedom of it, I love the experience of being in different vehicles because they all are looking to hit the mark for a different person and I find them all just wonderful and intriguing and I love to drive so, that’s it.

[00:02:37]
Amanda Greene: A fun fact, when I was a child, I made a pretend steering wheel and put a little bendy straw as a blinker because I so desperately wanted to drive. Because of that freedom you’re describing it really, it’s a feeling that never went away. So, the idea of purchasing a new car can be really overwhelming because there are so many factors that go into making the choice for someone who’s just starting to think about buying a car. . What are the main things that you would suggest considering?

[00:03:05]
Nicole Wakelin: Well, I think the first thing you need to do before you even go online and start looking at the mass of information about cars, is to figure out what you want and what works for you, not what your neighbor wants, not what your sister wants, not what your dad wants, what works for you because you’re going to be in that car a lot and it’s generally speaking, the second most expensive thing most people buy aside from their house.

So make sure that you know exactly what you want. Think about how you’re going to use your car, how you’re going to drive. Are you having lots of kids in the car or not? Do you have lots of cargo or not? Do you need to tow a boat or not? And then just narrow down the kind of car that you want before you even start looking at exactly which one.

[00:03:48]
Amanda Greene: What sort of things are important when buying a car? Can you give some examples?

[00:03:51]
Nicole Wakelin: Well, I think you need to consider, how comfortable you want to be. Comfort stuff is always important. You live in the Northeast, the heated seats and heated steering wheel might be more of a priority, you live in Florida, not so much. Things like all-wheel drive, those features, if you’re someplace where there’s lots of snow or even where the roads are just wet a lot, all-wheel drive might be a big deal if you’re in sunny California, again, maybe not. But look at the features that you want and the features that you must have and think carefully about what’s truly necessary.

Do you need a three-row SUV? If you only have one child, well, sure you could bring along all their friends, but that’s a lot more expensive. Do you really need that? Maybe a two-row SUV is enough. So look and think about how you’re going to use your car and then make a list of the things that are your priority. I hate cold mornings, I must have heated seats.

Performance is up there for me, well then I’m probably not going to be looking at an economy car that gets good gas milage. So, make a little list of the things that you just absolutely really, really want in your car versus the things that will be cool to have these things. But if my budget doesn’t allow it, then I can’t find the right mix, then I can survive without them.

[00:04:57]
Amanda Greene: Okay Nicole, you’re driving over a 100 vehicles a year, and so I imagine that can be a crazy task because you have to go into each one fresh to evaluate. Do you have a mental checklist that you go through when you get into the driver’s seat of a new car each time?

[00:05:13]
Nicole Wakelin: My priority every time is to make sure that it’s pleasant to look at and that it’s comfortable because most of the time you’re staring at the dashboard. Most of the time you’re sitting there and sometimes for hours and hours if you’re doing a road trip and the last thing you want are seats that are stiff or bolsters like the side that hold you in too tight so you feel squished and you just want to get out of them.

So I think finding comfort and having an appealing look to it is a priority and that you can actually see the road, which doesn’t sound like something that should be difficult, but if you have a big vehicle, sometimes the way the seat adjustments work, you find you’re trying to, especially a big SUV, where is the end of the hood, you should be able to get an adjustment where you can truly see without having stretched to do it.

So all these things are that first checklist of is this easy? Is this makes sense? Could anybody sit down in this and feel comfortable? You’re looking for things in a car to be something that you can get used to fairly quickly if they aren’t immediately intuitive?

[00:06:17]
Amanda Greene: How about electric vehicles? Who are they meant for? Who are they suited for?

[00:06:21]
Nicole Wakelin: I want to say they’re suited for everyone. Anyone can get an EV, but there are things that make them better or worse depending on your circumstances. You have to be able to charge them. If you’re someplace where you are, say in an apartment or a big city where you can’t install a charger in your garage or outside, at your driveway, then they might not be the best choice because it’s hard to rely solely on public chargers to be able to charge your vehicle. If you drive extremely long distances, again, that can be a little challenging because again, you’re relying on that public infrastructure and depending on where you are, it’s a little so-so.

They can be poorly located, they might not work, you might not get the charge you expect. So if you do lots of road trips, if you travel a lot for work, an EV might not be ideal unless you’re comfortable with getting comfortable with charging. If you’re not traveling super long distance, you’re okay because the average EV, you’re getting over 250 miles of range with one charge. Most of us don’t drive that much in a typical day. So truly most of us are going to be fine with an EV.

[00:07:26]
Amanda Greene: And I didn’t really realize how much car safety features have changed over time. My husband’s vehicle does not have a backup camera in it, and it’s only one year older than my car. And so I didn’t realize that that was something that came standard just a few years ago. But when you’re thinking about buying a used car, do any car safety features come to mind that you would consider a must have?

[00:07:46]
Nicole Wakelin: Absolutely. And depending on how old the car that you’re looking at is, every car now comes with a camera. So you have a backup camera once upon a time they didn’t. And depending on how far back you go, it may have just been the very top trim that they offered it in or very expensive cars that it was offered in.

So, I would look for what we consider the basics now. Look to see if those basics were available on some of those older cars because those were the ones that were the first things to roll out, like the camera, like lane keeping assist, that’s another good one.

Things like automatic emergency braking. That’s one of my favorite car safety features, if you can find a car that has that automatic emergency braking feature, it’s the one when you blink for two seconds and suddenly you’re about to rear end somebody that will save you so many times.

So don’t get too worried about the long list of features, they’re all great. They all provide help and keep you safe and keep you out of accidents. But we drove for a long time without all those and it wasn’t absolute chaos. You’ll be okay if you can’t find the latest and greatest feature on something that’s in a used car. So investigate it, but don’t get too carried away. Don’t be benchmarking against today’s Mercedes Benz because you’re never going to find that on a used car from four years ago.

[00:09:01]
Amanda Greene: It’s a good reminder to think about how fun a car, truck or whatever you’re in the market for can be. So, I’ve got to figure out which features are most important to me and don’t worry, we’re going to hear more from Nicole Wakelin later in the episode.

I do spend a lot of time in the car, so something that really works for me. I love a seat warmer. Okay, this is a nice one. It’s got three rows. Just like I wanted. Nicole said, think about what you want and need because like she said, there are going to be big differences between buying a used car from four years ago and a new Mercedes Benz. A major one of course is price. I need to talk to somebody about the budget.

To walk us through all things finance and how to approach including how to approach what’s usually the most hated thing about purchasing a car, negotiation. I’m talking to Ted Lyons, he’s Vice President of Financial Services with AAA Northeast Bank. Let’s start at the beginning. When is the best time to buy a car?

[00:10:13]
Ted Lyons: I think the easiest and most universal answer is before you have to. If you are put in a position where you have to buy a car tomorrow to go to work, to go to school, to pick up your kids, it’s going to put you at a decidedly poor advantage to negotiate. You haven’t done your research, you haven’t done your due diligence, you may not even know how much you can afford. The earlier you can get started on the process, the better and definitely before you have to buy it.

[00:10:42]
Amanda Greene: And speaking of what you can afford, the B word, nobody likes budgets. How do you even know if you’re in a position to be purchasing a car? How do you determine if you’re ready financially?

[00:10:52]
Ted Lyons: I think there’s a couple of things. One, the easiest and most obvious is take a peek at your bank account. What do you have in savings? Where are you positioned financially on a cash on hand basis? And then next is going the loan route. So you go and you find out how much can you afford. You can go to your local bank, your credit union, your auto club, wherever you want to go and go get pre-approved.

[00:11:15]
Amanda Greene: Okay, so that’s something people do. Before going to the dealership and actually talking about a car, they’re going to the bank or somewhere else to figure out how to get the money.

[00:11:24]
Ted Lyons: They should. Not everybody does, but they should.

[00:11:26]
Amanda Greene: I kind of thought you’d just show up at the dealership and they tell you.

[00:11:29]
Ted Lyons: Most people do, and that’s where your bargaining starts to go downhill. If you don’t have the ability to know how much you’re approved for, what rate you qualify for, what your credit score is, they’re going to throw a number at you and it may sound good and it may be way too high, maybe way too high. If you know how much you’re approved for, if you know what your rate is, if you know what your payment is relative to those two terms. So, how long did you take out the loan for. The dealership, they’re really good at selling cars and they sell more in a month than you’re going to buy in a lifetime.

[00:12:01]
Amanda Greene: Okay, you are talking about a different level of preparation than I ever thought was necessary before purchasing a car. So that is really good information. So, there’s various payment options. I thought you could either choose buy a used car, buy a new car or a lease, but it’s a little bit more than that.

[00:12:18]
Ted Lyons: It is, and those are effectively the three choices you have. So you’re going to buy a new car, you’re going to lease a new car, you’re going to buy a used car. You can break up that used car transaction a little further. So are you going to buy a used car from a dealer? Are you going to buy it from somebody off Craigslist? Are you going to buy it from somebody off of one of the auto buying sites or Facebook Marketplace or there’s a number of different ways you’re driving down the street and it’s on somebody’s front lawn.

There’s a number of different things so, we just a second ago talked about the financing. So it’s good to know how much can you afford, where are you going to get that money from and so forth. You also have to consider the car, so don’t show up to a car lot, don’t show up to somebody’s house or a dealership or what have you without knowing what that car’s worth. New cars are kind of easy for the most part. You’re paying around MSRP nowadays, the days of paying way under are kind of gone with the last three or four years of car buying mayhem, if you want to call it with inventory shortages and trip shortages.

[00:13:16]
Amanda Greene: You’re saying there’s a little less room for negotiation?

[00:13:18]
Ted Lyons: There has been. It’s starting to wane a little bit as the inventories are bouncing back. We’re starting to see there’s a little more room for that, but it’s nowhere near what it used to be.

[00:13:28]
Amanda Greene: Is there a best site to buy used cars or a resource that you suggest to visit to figure that out ahead of time?

[00:13:34]
Ted Lyons: So, I wouldn’t look at any one site. I’d look at a bunch. And the internet is a wonderful thing and it’s also a rabbit hole and my wife and I were talking about this morning where you get on something and then two hours later you come up for air. But there’s a few sites. So JD Power’s a good one for looking up values, Kelley Blue Book, there’s Edmunds, there’s any of the sales sites too, but it’s also good to see what they’re going for. So go look and see what they’re being advertised for because there’s also a difference between buying it off a dealer’s lot and buying it from your neighbor, right?

[00:14:05]
Amanda Greene: Right.

[00:14:05]
Ted Lyons: There’s a differential in the price there. So you’ve got to kind of know the range and then I hate to even layer this in, but if you’re trading in a car, you’re going to have a whole another factor of negotiation in there as well because they’re not going to offer you retail value for your vehicle.

[00:14:24]
Amanda Greene: Can we talk about leasing a car? Because I’ve never done a lease and I don’t really know a lot about them other than you’re locked into a certain amount of mileage. I know there’s a lease buyout and an extended lease, but how does leasing a car work?

[00:14:36]
Ted Lyons: So, leases are great for people that want to always drive a new car and are kind of married to the fact that they’re just going to always have a car payment. You mentioned mileage, mileage is a big piece of it where if you drive a lot, a lease is something you may not want to consider because they give you X amount of miles every year and at the end of the lease, if you turn that lease in, you may be paying 25 cents a mile over what you’re allotted.

So a lot of people in that case will tend to buy their cars out and lease buyouts have been a very big thing over the past few years because, as we talked about earlier with the inventory shortages and the add-on and the inflation on the vehicle values, you set your vehicle buyout price a couple of years ago.

Two, maybe three years ago when the values of those cars were much lower. Now it’s a very good financial decision in most cases to buy out that lease and a lot of people are doing it. So that can be another purchase option where you’re in a car, you like the car, maybe you don’t like what’s out there on the market right now, or you don’t want to pay what a new car is worth, a lease buyout’s a good option. You mentioned extended leases, some people can push out their lease another couple of years if they wanted to do that as well.

[00:15:49]
Amanda Greene: So let’s talk about terms. What should buyers know about terms to avoid being taken advantage of once they’re there and ready to buy a car?

[00:15:57]
Ted Lyons: I think again, with doing your homework and doing your research upfront, when you get into the purchase end of things, there’s other pieces of the puzzle. The dealer’s also going to be offering you products. So from extended service contracts to gap insurance to fabric protection, undercoating, you name it, they have it and they’re going to offer it to you. In a lot of cases, all of those are negotiable. So they may come to you with a very high rate on something and you say, ‘I’m not paying that.’ And a lot of that stuff is available on the outside market as well. You don’t have to buy it from a dealer.

Picture yourself sitting at home watching TV and an extended warranty commercial comes up from a particular company, they’re available elsewhere out in the market. So you can do your homework and know what those cost as well. Knowing what these things are worth and being prepared to be offered them when you’re sitting down, and sometimes they’ll do it in a menu fashion, they’ll present you with…

[00:16:51]
Amanda Greene: A pamphlet.

[00:16:51]
Ted Lyons: Yeah, and they start with the highest and they bring you down to the lowest and the lowest isn’t zero. The lowest is just the fewest number of the products they want to offer you. So you don’t have to take any of it necessarily. Some of it’s good and some of it’s worthwhile taking depending on your financial situation. Gap coverage, for instance. God forbid you have a total loss on the vehicle and you owe more on the loan than the vehicle pays out for through insurance, gap coverage kicks in there. So did you check your insurance company for it? Did you check other carriers? You don’t necessarily have to get it through the dealer.

[00:17:22]
Amanda Greene: Yeah, there’s some homework to do.

[00:17:23]
Ted Lyons: Absolutely,

[00:17:24]
Amanda Greene: Yes.

[00:17:24]
Ted Lyons: Everybody falls in love with the car and they get a little punch drunk when they go to the dealership because you probably drove in with something that maybe isn’t running so great. There’s a reason you showed up to the lot, so you just drove something that’s really nice and now you fell in love with it and you have to have it, and that’s where those rash decisions come.

So the more tips and information you have up front, the better. But are you driving the same type of car you did? Do you know what your insurance is going to cost? Is this car going to double your insurance and make it unaffordable? Have you looked at what repairs are going to cost on this car? Fixing a Toyota Corolla is different than fixing a BMW and I’m not picking one over the other. It’s just a fact of life. Registration’s another one.

[00:17:59]
Amanda Greene: Right.

[00:18:00]
Ted Lyons: So you have to register this new car or transfer the registration from your old car. You’re going to have to pay sales tax on that new car. Are those things going to put that car out of reach for you or cause you some grief down the road? And these are all the things you got to look at that generally people overlook because they see the shiny car and they say, I have to have it.

[00:18:16]
Amanda Greene: Thanks so much for this Ted. Sounds like I have a lot of homework to do, but before I go, let’s bring Nicole Wakelin back for some lightning round questions. Just to be clear, all of these are Nicole’s opinions and recommendations and hers alone, so we’re getting real insider info here. Okay, Nicole, the best fuel efficient car to drive in the city.

[00:18:39]
Nicole Wakelin: Fuel efficient city driving. This is like a lot of pressure. I’m going to go with, it’s sort of a standby, the Prius, which I know isn’t exciting, but they redid it this year and the Prius is small enough to make it easy to drive in the city and great fuel economy with the best gas milage.

[00:18:52]
Amanda Greene: How about best midsize SUV?

[00:18:54]
Nicole Wakelin: Best midsize SUV. And at this moment, I’ve forgotten every midsize SUV on the planet. It’s a luxury car, so it’s luxury, but I really enjoyed driving because it was so tech forward. How about the Lincoln Nautilus?

[00:19:07]
Amanda Greene: Ooh, I love the look of that one. I think my in-laws drive that. How about the best adventure car for road trips or camping, something adventurous?

[00:19:17]
Nicole Wakelin: Okay, for adventure. I don’t know how adventurous you want to get, but I feel like the Jeep Wrangler is the best adventurous car out there. Take the doors off, take the roof off, get muddy and dirty and have some fun with an outdoor vehicle.

[00:19:28]
Amanda Greene: Okay, some broader questions. Winter tires, yes or no?

[00:19:32]
Nicole Wakelin: So, I am big on winter tires. I will go on for an entire podcast about why everybody who lives someplace where it’s cold because it is winter, it’s not snow tires. So the rule is if you’re in someplace where it’s consistently under 40 degrees, when that happens, you should be on winter tires. It makes a huge difference whether there’s snow or even cold. It’s not just about the snow. So yes, yes, yes to winter tires.

[00:19:58]
Amanda Greene: Oh, interesting. Okay. How about a protective undercoating?

[00:20:02]
Nicole Wakelin: I feel like that was something we did many, many years ago because things rusted, but if you look at the warranties that come on today’s vehicles and how they build them, the things they’ve done to protect them, you don’t really need that stuff. You’re wasting your money, I think.

[00:20:13]
Amanda Greene: All right, next one, touch screen or physical buttons.

[00:20:16]
Nicole Wakelin: It’s both. The answer’s both. No matter what anyone tells you, I’m right on this. You need a touch screen for some stuff, but don’t take away people’s volume knob. Don’t put that in the touch screen. Don’t take away the button that will let me turn the heat up and turn it down. Don’t make me dig around in a screen in the latest one that drives me nuts. They’re putting the air vents, so the controls for the vents are in your touch screen, so you can’t reach out and move the vent. You have to touch your screen and then touch the spot on the screen that looks like your vent and slide your finger around. No, that needs an actual physical control.

[00:20:48]
Amanda Green: I agree 100%. This has been wonderful talking to you. Thank you so much for coming on.

[00:20:53]
Nicole Wakelin: Oh, thank you so much for having me on the podcast. It was a pleasure.

[00:20:56]
Amanda Greene: That was Nicole Wakelin automotive journalist, car expert and truck jumper. And before that, we heard from Ted Lyons, Vice President of Financial Services with AAA Northeast Bank. They both had so much good info to share. So many things I hadn’t thought of. The draw of a shiny new car is a strong one, especially if what you’re used to is a little old or things don’t work.

Or, there’s a puddle of some mystery liquid pooling under your car. I guess the things to keep in mind are to pick out what you want beforehand, don’t rush into a purchase, know how much you want to pay and on what terms, and don’t forget to factor in all the extras, like repairs, insurance, registration.

It’s all about showing up already informed. You’ve been listening to Merging Into Life where we navigate life’s milestones, one episode at a time. Brought to you by AAA Northeast with production assistance from JAR Audio. I’m your host, Amanda Greene. If you had anywhere as much fun as I did, follow us wherever you get your podcasts and let us know what you think.

Send your thoughts to podcast@AAANortheast.com. In the meantime, I’m going to figure out how much I really want to spend on this new car.

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RESOURCES

AAA Car Buying Guide

AAA Auto Insurance

AAA Auto Loans

AAA Auto Buying Program

AAA Auto Loan Payment Calculator

JD Power

More from Nicole Wakelin

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Want to Learn More? Drop Us a Note

*The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are not necessarily the views of AAA Northeast, AAA and/or its affiliates.